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Squirrel

Anyone want to buy 2 PSL'S

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Offer for 2 at $5,000 each 3 years ago.  Should have taken it.  Currently sell the whole season to the same buyer for 3 years.  Tepper's ownership scares me.  The PSL values may be 0 in a few years.

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11 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I'm a big principal person. I will take the loss. Hopefully Tepper will see the issues with PSLs and gets rid of them. But guaranteed revenue stream is hard to day no too. Another reason I have no issues just giving them back. Because if we cant sell them then the Panthers cant sell theirs for full price. 

In reality you’re feeding Tepper. If you forfeit your Psl’s, the Panthers will Absorb  them and sell them for retail or sell your seats as single game ticket sales until the PSL’s sell. The Panther actual benefit from PSL forfeitures.  

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Had mine since 2002 

silver Club with parking.

Coming from Raleigh every Sunday and back home is a bit tough but I will say this, I’ve had the privilege of seeing two Panthers teams in that time go to the Super Bowl 

the memories I have made there with friends made it well worth it and I’m by no means rich 

it’s about having a little bit of joy in your life being a football fan.  If you find that joy on your sofa, that’s ok too   I would take absolutely nothing fir the 2015 season playoff run   It was an experience in that stadium that can’t be bought 

Life changes for me as well  I sell the tickets I can’t go to and I do not feel bad about who they are sold to  I paid the price on my ticket   They go on the Exchange as many Pathers fans don’t want to pay  I’m not running a charity so no home town discounts   The fan shaming doesn’t affect me either  I’ll sell to Panthers fans if they want to pay the price I pay  if they don’t, they don’t 

 

 

Edited by raleigh-panther
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Just want to make sure I understand this, because I’ve been super against the PSLs since I’ve been old enough to purchase them. 

First, if it wasn’t for the PSL system we wouldn’t have the Carolina Panthers. I get it, everyone gets it. I appreciate the concept in 1994 but in 2019 there is no reason for the system. They should have kept it for maybe the first 10 years to “profit” off the stadium. But let’s be honest, that stadium is and has been paid for easily at this point. 

You have to buy the PSL just to have the right to the ticket? So if the ticket is worth say $100, with 8 home games and 2 preseason games that you “must” purchase, that’s $1,000 if they don’t make the playoffs. The Panthers make money off the ticket alone. Then on top of that each year you are buying the “right” of the ticket for around $1,500. So no matter what unless you sell the tickets for almost 1.5x the value you  are losing money just buying tickets. Just for the “rights” of that ticket. 

 

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6 hours ago, MHS831 said:

PSL owners selling their tickets to pay for PSLs.  That is like buying a car to get to work so you can afford to pay for the car. 

 

It explains why there are so many opposition jerseys at most games too.

If you don’t like it buy them.  I dont love it either but I bought a pair and put my money where my mouth is

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7 minutes ago, Paintballr said:

Just want to make sure I understand this, because I’ve been super against the PSLs since I’ve been old enough to purchase them. 

First, if it wasn’t for the PSL system we wouldn’t have the Carolina Panthers. I get it, everyone gets it. I appreciate the concept in 1994 but in 2019 there is no reason for the system. They should have kept it for maybe the first 10 years to “profit” off the stadium. But let’s be honest, that stadium is and has been paid for easily at this point. 

You have to buy the PSL just to have the right to the ticket? So if the ticket is worth say $100, with 8 home games and 2 preseason games that you “must” purchase, that’s $1,000 if they don’t make the playoffs. The Panthers make money off the ticket alone. Then on top of that each year you are buying the “right” of the ticket for around $1,500. So no matter what unless you sell the tickets for almost 1.5x the value you  are losing money just buying tickets. Just for the “rights” of that ticket. 

 

I sold our PSLs about 6 years ago and made a couple bucks, but I guess I'm very fortunate as the market has changed significantly. At the time we purchased them (1995), we were far from financially independent and we thought this was the only way we would be able to see the Panthers play in Charlotte. Over the years we upgraded twice until we ended up at field level, but within a couple years everyone we knew who was with us in 1995 was gone, their kids grown and other priorities in life meant different directions. And even in the best of times, there's never been a game day in Charlotte when a ticket was not available on the street somewhere.

I agree, PSLs are the tried and true method of financing a stadium build without pissing off the taxpayers. But for those who think it's an "investment," I hate to tell you this, but it's not. Anyone considering the purchase of PSLs should be prepared to lose money at some point down the road. 

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13 minutes ago, Stoney said:

Not quite how it works.

Paying for the Personal Seat License is a one-time, up-front expense (let's call it $5k per x 2 = $10,000).

Owning that PSL gives one the right to purchase those 2 seats each season in perpetuity.  It is also an obligation to purchase those seats, the PSL is revoked if you don't pay up for the seat.

If the market will bear it, the PSL owner can re-sell to another fan for whatever price they are able to negotiate, here lately sounds like it is a buyers market.

Or, as it sounds like some are considering doing, the PSL owner can simply decline to buy the tickets and their PSL lapses and goes back to the team.

The Jets/Giants adopted a similar system to help finance their new stadium and their PSL market is similarly depressed.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/business/meadowlands-matters/2017/02/23/giants-psl-prices-did-they-turn-out-worth/98322972/

 

 

College teams use this model too. I could never buy into it because the "in perpetuity" really only benefits the team if you don't purchase the seats. It isn't as if you could cede the seats to the team for a couple of seasons and then still have the ability to purchase them in the future, you just flush that money down the toilet. It's a fantastic model for sports teams but it really does punish the fans if the tickets don't maintain value, which is always going to be a problem in an area where an established fanbase doesn't exist or consistent success is not maintained. 

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16 hours ago, Stoney said:

Based on the Panthers website face value in your section is $12,500/psl.

True "market value" is something between $0 and $12,500....I'm sure you can get something vs. turning them back into the team.

Have you guys looked at eBay?  There are a number of Panthers PSL's advertised...

For example, two (2) PSL's in section 111, row 13....face value is $25,000 on the Panthers website.  The advertised price is $17,000/psl but they are also accepting "offers".

Here's the rub, listing has been in place for 2 months.  In addition, in the "make offer" tab eBay indicates something along the lines of $12,750 might get a response from the seller....

Bottom line: if you really want to sell start at 60% of the advertised price on the Panthers website and be prepared to work lower from there.

Good luck.

Thank you! Yes, they lowered the PSL price in my section by $5500 each this year but didn't raise the ticket prices. Their PSL price doesn't affect me except for advertising in the description. I don't base the price on that. I had the PSL's on eBay for 3 months, had some questions to answer so there was interest, 200 views. I even got an offer of $1000 for both, uh, no. Everyone lists in eBay with "obo" attached and/or auctions with a reserve amount. I took down the listing on May 31st because the transfer period is closed until August 1st and I wanted to start fresh come then. My listed price is 58% of 'retail' which gives me plenty of room for negotiating or lowering the price and puts me right in the ballpark on the Panthers PSL exchange. I can save anyone that 10% fee by doing the transfer paperwork (I've done it before; it's not hard just tedious.) I'd even negotiate the $400 Panther transfer fee that has to be paid when you request the transfer paperwork.

I'm supposedly doing it "right". The market is soft until the season gets closer and people get excited. Only 1 listing sold in those 3 months: upper level, $1999 for both instead of $2500 plus they paid the transfer fee. Grabbing attention of the right person is key as is patience.

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2 hours ago, raleigh-panther said:

Had mine since 2002 

silver Club with parking.

Coming from Raleigh every Sunday and back home is a bit tough but I will say this, I’ve had the privilege of seeing two Panthers teams in that time go to the Super Bowl 

the memories I have made there with friends made it well worth it and I’m by no means rich 

it’s about having a little bit of joy in your life being a football fan.  If you find that joy on your sofa, that’s ok too   I would take absolutely nothing fir the 2015 season playoff run   It was an experience in that stadium that can’t be bought 

Life changes for me as well  I sell the tickets I can’t go to and I do not feel bad about who they are sold to  I paid the price on my ticket   They go on the Exchange as many Pathers fans don’t want to pay  I’m not running a charity so no home town discounts   The fan shaming doesn’t affect me either  I’ll sell to Panthers fans if they want to pay the price I pay  if they don’t, they don’t 

 

 

I’ll never forget the time you sold me Falcons tickets from your PSLs. If it makes a difference, you did sell them to a huge Panther fan and my friend and I had a blast and memories we won’t forget all thanks to your tickets. Thanks again.

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8 hours ago, Lumps said:

No one cares what you paid for them, and no one cares what the Panthers are selling them for. No one cares you’ve been ‘invested’ in them for 15 years, and a buyer doesn’t owe you anything for that. That’s not how it works and it does happen or you would be getting offers.

PSLs, like most things, aren’t an investment and the price from the panthers, or ‘brand new’ price doesn’t set the market in the least.

The market is set by what people are willing to pay and you’re asking too much. If you weren’t, they’d be sold.

So try and understand your potential customer market after realizing the above. People such as myself never understood ‘rights’ to seats when I can virtually buy seasons tickets, every season, anywhere in the stadium without PSLs. So what is the pros of PSLs? The same exact seats every season? Not having to go through the no much of a hassle of getting season tickets every season?

So, PSLs to me are for those with disposable income so much to the point they’re able to just get season tickets mailed to them and that’s that. That’s going to be some impressive disposable income. PSLs are also for business accounts who purchase them for clients and employees. Some of the people who bought PSLs are not these people.

You invested in PSLs for a team that has limited history, a stadium full of resellers in a city built on business. Meaning tickets in Charlotte are easily obtained. 

I appreciate PSL owners helping to build the stadium but again, this isn’t an investment and not something you’d make money on with this team, in this city. I’d enjoy the memories you’ve had and get something rather than nothing instead of trying to profit or make most your money back because that’s exactly what you bought. Sorry for the harsh truths.

I don't really care about your "harsh truths."  I may or may not sell my PSLs for my asking price and you know what?  I'm completely fine with that.  I'm not a hardship case and I feel really bad for those folks that plan on simply forfeiting their PSLs. I can afford my tickets, the experience is getting stale quite frankly.  A piece of advice for you, don't tell other people what to do with their money or at the very lest offer it as humble advise, not some sort of arrogant arse backseat money manager.  

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31 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I don't really care about your "harsh truths."  I may or may not sell my PSLs for my asking price and you know what?  I'm completely fine with that.  I'm not a hardship case and I feel really bad for those folks that plan on simply forfeiting their PSLs. I can afford my tickets, the experience is getting stale quite frankly.  A piece of advice for you, don't tell other people what to do with their money or at the very lest offer it as humble advise, not some sort of arrogant arse backseat money manager.  

I don’t really care if you care about my harsh truths. I don’t need to sugar coat and humble advice so that I don’t hurt your feelings, grow up. I didn’t tell anyone what to do. I said what ‘I’d’ do. It wasn’t arrogant, just blunt and the only reason it triggered you is you didn’t like what I said and didn’t like that is was the truth.

Edited by Lumps
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The PSL is not a "right to purchase those seats in perpetuity." It is an obligation, because if you don't purchase the tickets, you're forfeiting the PSL. And, if the possibility of a playoff appearance exists, you're obligated to buy playoff tickets right around the holidays. And if they don't make the holidays or are bounced early, you've laid out money for unused tickets and the team collects the interest on them for a few months before they apply the credit to your next season's ticket invoice.

Look, to each their own, and I had PSLs for 17 seasons. The first 12 seasons I had no regrets and really enjoyed the experience. But it wore on me and when I watched the price of the PSLs drop, which immediately devalued mine, I wasn't happy. The Carolina Panthers basically took more money from me than they needed to build the stadium, and those who benefited weren't the long-time seat owners, it was the newcomers.

I love the game, but I hate the business.

 

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15 minutes ago, Anybodyhome said:

The Carolina Panthers basically took more money from me than they needed to build the stadium, and those who benefited weren't the long-time seat owners, it was the newcomers.owners

F JR

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I'd give the m-f-ers away before I give them back to a rich mofo like Tepper. But that's me and my principles.

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