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Ivan The Awesome

Understanding Cam Newton by PFF.

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11 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Please provide the list of NFL QBs whose completion percentage gets BETTER when they are “forced off their spot”.

Whatever the list is, Vick is probably on it.  He was just as inaccurate from on his spot as he was when he was chased off it, maybe moreso.  Then again, when he was perched on his spot he was usually looking for an excuse to be forced off it and run.

The video is not making any new points, and is in fact "Passing 101."  When Cam is stepping into his throws, he is very accurate.  When he is stepping "into the bucket" either from pressure or just having one of those days, you get what you get. 

Stepping sideways also puts more pressure on his shoulder. 

I agree, the pass to Funchess he showed still should have been caught even though it was a less than accurate throw.  The two-point conversion was an example of stepping into the bucket. 

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Cam isn't perfect but anyone who can watch that Lions game and come to any other conclusion than that Devin Funchess was by far and away the biggest contributor to that loss already had their mind made up before watching. I'm honestly not sure I can recall a single worse WR performance in an NFL game.

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58 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Please provide the list of NFL QBs whose completion percentage gets BETTER when they are “forced off their spot”.

Eye test says Russell Wilson. Too lazy to refute my assumption by checking.

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If you're a Panthers fan worth your salt, you don't need PFF or any other site to tell you what you've seen with your own two eyes the last 8 years. We all watch the same games.

We know what Cam is, and what he isn't. At least we should. Newton is a transcendent talent at the quarterback position who is not without his faults, but more than adequate enough to compete for a championship with if healthy. All the other stuff in between is just useless fodder. It will never end.

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15 minutes ago, TheRed said:

If you're a Panthers fan worth your salt, you don't need PFF or any other site to tell you what you've seen with your own two eyes the last 8 years. We all watch the same games.

We know what Cam is, and what he isn't. At least we should. Newton is a transcendent talent at the quarterback position who is not without his faults, but more than adequate enough to compete for a championship with if healthy. All the other stuff in between is just useless fodder. It will never end.

The other stuff does matter: shoulder, longevity with play style, efficiency, leadership, age, and production. All of that "useless fodder" factors into roster construction and contract talks.

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14 minutes ago, ChibCU said:

The other stuff does matter: shoulder, longevity with play style, efficiency, leadership, age, and production. All of that "useless fodder" factors into roster construction and contract talks.

I never said those factors don't matter.

Fodder is in reference to the endless circular arguing about things like stats which involve so many more factors beyond just the QB.

You f*ckers will argue about anything. Go be happy for once in your life. It's only Monday.

Edited by TheRed

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PFF is trash. Cherry picking a game late in the season with multiple failures around him throughout the game after his shoulder was breaking down. His mechanics and throws were better early in the game when his shoulder was as fresh as it was going to be that day? /insertyoudontsaymeme.  Cam should have hit that 2pt conversion throw, of course he isn’t perfect. But PFF is trash and especially trash at trying to “analyze” QBs. 

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I love folks on both sides overselling or under evaluating Cam. Cam has always had poor mechanics with his feet, his body position, and his shoulder.  He hasn't really worked on it until last year with fortunately significant improvement. Much of his talent was being a dual threat QB and he was one of the first to embrace the run-pass offense. Nothing in that video was wrong really. It was simplistic and not fully adequate given his injury which was documented, but the folks who think Cam didn't need to change and that he could lead us back to the Superbowl without changing or adapting are ignoring the reality.  This isn't 2015 this is 2019. What teams learned is you can beat Cam pressing receivers off the line, blitzing up the A gaps and spying him when he tries to run. Cam has learned if you get the ball out quick and have checkdowns you can move the ball and negate the blitz. Couple that with accurate throws when teams try and single cover you when they blitz, and Cam has a formula to back off the blitz and give himself space. Having better talent and a good o line helps a lot, but Cam can help himself most by listening to Norv and Scott who have been around and know how to help him excel.

Edited by panthers55
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3 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

Please provide the list of NFL QBs whose completion percentage gets BETTER when they are “forced off their spot”.

with nothing to back it up.  I'd guess Wilson's numbers are better off his spot.   Aaron Rodgers probably is close.  Generally best to keep both those dudes in the pocket IMO

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4 minutes ago, CRA said:

with nothing to back it up.  I'd guess Wilson's numbers are better off his spot.   Aaron Rodgers probably is close.  Generally best to keep both those dudes in the pocket IMO

There are several QBs who move well in the pocket and aren't as impacted by pressure. Top of my list would be Roethlisburger who is very elusive in the pocket and hard to bring down. Wilson as you mention is another. Let's put Mahomes in that category as well. There are several who are good avoiding pressure who have great pocket awareness. Cam isn't one of them.

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2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

There are several QBs who move well in the pocket and aren't as impacted by pressure. Top of my list would be Roethlisburger who is very elusive in the pocket and hard to bring down. Wilson as you mention is another. Let's put Mahomes in that category as well. There are several who are good avoiding pressure who have great pocket awareness. Cam isn't one of them.

Brady might be slow as dirt....but he actually is amazing w/ his pocket presence and ability to avoid pressure.  Brady is the gold standard that you don't actually have to athletic to be good at avoiding pressure. 

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9 minutes ago, CRA said:

Brady might be slow as dirt....but he actually is amazing w/ his pocket presence and ability to avoid pressure.  Brady is the gold standard that you don't actually have to athletic to be good at avoiding pressure. 

Thought about including him but now any time someone comes within 5 feet of him he drops to the ground in fear of getting hit. 

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1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

I love folks on both sides overselling or under evaluating Cam. Cam has always had poor mechanics with his feet, his body position, and his shoulder.  He hasn't really worked on it until last year with fortunately significant improvement. Much of his talent was being a dual threat QB and he was one of the first to embrace the run-pass offense. Nothing in that video was wrong really. It was simplistic and not fully adequate given his injury which was documented, but the folks who think Cam didn't need to change and that he could lead us back to the Superbowl without changing or adapting are ignoring the reality.  This isn't 2015 this is 2019. What teams learned is you can beat Cam pressing receivers off the line, blitzing up the A gaps and spying him when he tries to run. Cam has learned if you get the ball out quick and have checkdowns you can move the ball and negate the blitz. Couple that with accurate throws when teams try and single cover you when they blitz, and Cam has a formula to back off the blitz and give himself space. Having better talent and a good o line helps a lot, but Cam can help himself most by listening to Norv and Scott who have been around and know how to help him excel.

Talks about adapting, mentions Norv Turner LOL. Norv should be counting his blessing he getting to coach Cam, this is the same Norv who got fired from his last 3 jobs, and the second he leaves the offenses drastically improve.

 

What Cam showed last season is that he can play in one these easy dink and dunk offenses while putting up 69% completion rate, any formidable QB can play in an offense were they give you designed easy gimme throws.  All those season under Shula Cam was playing in a non friendly QB offense where he was forced to make tight window throws

 

 

Cam doesn’t need to change what needs to change is this slow play coaching philosophy Ron and Norv have, they still refuse to play a fast pace no huddle offense which in many cases last season was our best bet for making games competitive. Your asking our QB to adapt when he has two fossils dragging him down.

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59 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Talks about adapting, mentions Norv Turner LOL. Norv should be counting his blessing he getting to coach Cam, this is the same Norv who got fired from his last 3 jobs, and the second he leaves the offenses drastically improve.

 

What Cam showed last season is that he can play in one these easy dink and dunk offenses while putting up 69% completion rate, any formidable QB can play in an offense were they give you designed easy gimme throws.  All those season under Shula Cam was playing in a non friendly QB offense where he was forced to make tight window throws

 

 

Cam doesn’t need to change what needs to change is this slow play coaching philosophy Ron and Norv have, they still refuse to play a fast pace no huddle offense which in many cases last season was our best bet for making games competitive. Your asking our QB to adapt when he has two fossils dragging him down.

Stick to your commentaries versus football analysis. Agreed Norv's system is more quarterback friendly but it is hardly dink and dunk. Cam may have made it look like that due to his shoulder issues. Norv has done a good job over the years staying current and adapting. He did a good job with Bridgewater before the injury. 

As for the no huddle offense, it is useful at times or if you are Peyton Manning most of the time but after Chip Kelly got fired you don't see it most of the time. 

Go back and look at Cam's efficiency in the last 2 minutes of each half when he would most likely be using the hurry up offense and what do you see? He is less efficient passing the ball compared to the rest of the game even when other teams are in prevent. So no the idea he is so great in no huddle is actually another huddle myth not supported by the facts.

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