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The Lobo

TD with some Cam thoughts

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1 hour ago, t96 said:

If we actively tank for him, by trading away some of our pieces for future draft picks, and sticking with Allen/Grier at QB for this year, not re-sign guys like Bradberry, McCoy, Mario, and don’t spend much of our cap space, etc. we can absolutely get Lawrence. Also just look at Rhule’s records in his first year of being a HC with his different teams. If we let Cam go this year,  I completely expect us to be absolutely horrible, 1-2 wins, with the eyes set on sustained success in the future. That’s been Rhule’s MO, come in, tear it down a bit and start from scratch and build it up pretty quick after the first year or two. 

Miami tried that this past year, didn't work out as well as they hoped.  And you can't put players on the field, and tell them to lose.  There are two many unknowns.   We could luck up and win one, while some other team goes 0-16. Our odds of getting the draft pick/player we want is 1 in 5, at best.  

And that is assuming Lawrence or whomever we get is the next Peyton Manning and not the next Mitch Trubisky.  

Cam Newton is a proven commodity.  If he gets healthy, then he should stay, instead of taking a chance that we might get a good draft pick, and the draft pick might turn out to be a good choice.  

Edited by Davidson Deac II

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2 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

TD has always been one of my favorite Panthers. That being said, he was a guy who thought he was coming back to retire as a Panther after just one more season here. I don't think he's any more in the loop on Cam than he was in on his own future here. 

Hope Cam stays, but the tea leaves are reading otherwise.

There is zero reasons not to keep him this year unless a trade happens. Allen and Greir are not even good for evaluation purposes. Both are too young and not talented enough. 

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1 hour ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Miami tried that this past year, didn't work out as well as they hoped.  And you can't put players on the field, and tell them to lose.  There are two many unknowns.   We could luck up and win one, while some other team goes 0-16. Our odds of getting the draft pick/player we want is 1 in 5, at best.  

And that is assuming Lawrence or whomever we get is the next Peyton Manning and not the next Mitch Trubisky.  

Cam Newton is a proven commodity.  If he gets healthy, then he should stay, instead of taking a chance that we might get a good draft pick, and the draft pick might turn out to be a good choice.  

Miami didn’t try it at all, they did make some trades for future assets but they were clearly trying to win games, otherwise they’d have played their young QB Rosen to see what they had in him instead of Fitzpatrick who was clearly a better option for winning games. And Flores and Rhule are much different. Flores came up in NE where losing at all is just not acceptable. Rhule has been HC twice before and both times made an effort to start from scratch and rebuild for the long term while accepting losing in the first year or two—that combined with Tepper’s comments about how it may take several years to get it built up to consistent success. 
 

Lawrence or Fields is a solid option, so top 2-3 pick should get us one of them, depending on which teams are terrible—some could already have their QB.

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Some of you (not you @t96) make it sound like Rhule tore down what was at Temple and Baylor before building the teams into winners. He didn't; it was what he walked into. Now, I'll state the obvious as a reminder that recruiting high school players is 100% different from drafting and signing FA's under a cap. He knew his players almost as well as he knows his own children. Panther players are strangers to him and I understand his lack of interest in getting into the personnel side (although I think he will to some degree). Building a winning team culture with strangers, which is what needs to happen, is new to Rhule but tanking is not in his DNA. Neither is tearing things apart.

I look at the 2020 season as the year for reshuffling, not rebuilding. What comes beyond 2020 will be positive building years if done right. If Tepper's 5 year plan works out. If Hurney doesn't screw it up.

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18 hours ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

I get what you’re saying but I don’t think y’all understand we’d have to be browns level bad to get Lawrence or fields, in which we be trusting the future of our franchise on that one of them will be as good or better than a healthy cam. 

another thing people are skimming over is that getting rid of cam, You mines as well get rid of cmc, hard to imagine this team being bad enough for a top 2 pick with him on the roster or justify paying him big bucks to play his prime years during a rebuild 


 

One could argue that if you bring Cam back and he balls out that he increases his stock.  We could always trade back this year, and collect assets for next year, while letting Cam play out his contract.  If that happens, we may be in good position to move up next year in the drafter if Cam under performs. Cam will have something to prove.  If he balls out, we can either resign him, or franchise him and execute a sign and trade.  Either way, I think the best way to accrue the most out of Cam whether it be keeping him or accruing assets would be giving him one more year.  

 

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6 hours ago, thefuzz said:

What exactly does that mean to you?  "we are good"?

It means Cam is a franchise QB able to carry an offense

 

unless you doubt that 

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3 hours ago, Snake said:

There is zero reasons not to keep him this year unless a trade happens. Allen and Greir are not even good for evaluation purposes. Both are too young and not talented enough. 

And if Cam can't play, that may be the very best reason to keep them if we can't snag a steal in the draft or trade for the first pick.

Remember, everyone wanted regime change. 2020 is going to seem a lot like Fallujah 2005 out there. 

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1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

And if Cam can't play, that may be the very best reason to keep them if we can't snag a steal in the draft or trade for the first pick.

Remember, everyone wanted regime change. 2020 is going to seem a lot like Fallujah 2005 out there. 

If he can't play there is no reason to worry about that. He will be released and we will move on. Still need to give him a chance to show he's healthy. 

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9 hours ago, stbugs said:

It’s the NFL, we’ll field a team. No one is saying sit CMC and don’t try to win, but it’s funny how many people want to avoid 2-14 like the plague. We’ve made it to 2 Super Bowls. In 2001, we sucked but it got us Peppers and in 2003 we went to the Super Bowl. In 2010, we sucked and we got Cam and in 2015 we went to the Super Bowl. Our two worst seasons set the groundwork for our two best seasons.

We suck this year, don’t care how much optimism there is. We have a Cam who hasn’t been fully healthy in 5 years. We’ve got arguably the worst D in the league that looks like it will lose a bunch of FAs. We’ve got an OL that gave up the second most sacks and the most sacks was a team that got rid of their best two OL the past two years. We drafted a tackle at 37 and signed a big C FA deal and tried to improve and did as bad. There’s no sugar coating where we are. It’s time for a reboot of 2001 and 2010. If history repeats again that’s the best chance to get back to the SB and god forbid win this time.

Half of this is gloom and doom, Kyle Allen was a professional folding chair the second half of the season anytime he senses pressure which majority the time involved him running Into pressure.

the defense was atrocious runs defense wise because Ron let Washington turn them into a laughing stock.

i mean the team is bad but not far from being a contender, especially the offense. Reality is Ron held this team back a lot more than the talent on the roster has. 

Being garbage enough to get a mvp qb You’d hope we’d hold onto him at least until mid thirties but we got people wanting to do the opposite like franchise qb grow on trees 
 


 

 

 

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3 hours ago, TheMaulClaw said:

One could argue that if you bring Cam back and he balls out that he increases his stock.  We could always trade back this year, and collect assets for next year, while letting Cam play out his contract.  If that happens, we may be in good position to move up next year in the drafter if Cam under performs. Cam will have something to prove.  If he balls out, we can either resign him, or franchise him and execute a sign and trade.  Either way, I think the best way to accrue the most out of Cam whether it be keeping him or accruing assets would be giving him one more year.  

 

Yeah I had just got through saying this in another post, just makes too much sense in the grand scheme, and gives the team more option and chances at success instead of devoiding the team of talent to get a rookie qb who will come into a bengals like situation next season, 

cam balling out only helps us, either retaining him or trading him

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2 hours ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Half of this is gloom and doom, Kyle Allen was a professional folding chair the second half of the season anytime he senses pressure which majority the time involved him running Into pressure.

the defense was atrocious runs defense wise because Ron let Washington turn them into a laughing stock.

i mean the team is bad but not far from being a contender, especially the offense. Reality is Ron held this team back a lot more than the talent on the roster has. 

Being garbage enough to get a mvp qb You’d hope we’d hold onto him at least until mid thirties but we got people wanting to do the opposite like franchise qb grow on trees 
 


 

 

 

This team is 1-15 the past two years when it counted after the midpoint. We just lost Luke and Greg and likely a bunch more FAs and you think we are close to contending?

I’ll say it again, our 2015 #1 scoring offense barely out scored our 2019 defense which is about to be worse or just as bad. That’s not even getting into how much the turnovers (led the league by far) of the 2015 defense helped the 2015 offense.

I hate to “throw away” Cam but we aren’t contenders with him and the point is that after 2020 or before 2020, he’s going to want a big extension if he’s healthy. IMHO, and remember I don’t run the team so my opinion is just that, I’d rather go for a 2021 cheap QB, draft a lot of talent with high picks like this year, use all the comp picks we could get in 2021, get a 2nd for Cam (shouldn’t be hard) and go for it with the extra cap in 2022/2023 through 2025/2026. I think that’s our best chance to win a SB. 

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16 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

It means Cam is a franchise QB able to carry an offense

 

unless you doubt that 

Cam isn't good enough to carry this team to "we are good" territory.  Hell, no QB in the NFL is.

Team was awful last season, and that team will look like a Pro Bowl roster compared to the one we will field this coming season.

 

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11 hours ago, stbugs said:

This team is 1-15 the past two years when it counted after the midpoint. We just lost Luke and Greg and likely a bunch more FAs and you think we are close to contending?

I’ll say it again, our 2015 #1 scoring offense barely out scored our 2019 defense which is about to be worse or just as bad. That’s not even getting into how much the turnovers (led the league by far) of the 2015 defense helped the 2015 offense.

I hate to “throw away” Cam but we aren’t contenders with him and the point is that after 2020 or before 2020, he’s going to want a big extension if he’s healthy. IMHO, and remember I don’t run the team so my opinion is just that, I’d rather go for a 2021 cheap QB, draft a lot of talent with high picks like this year, use all the comp picks we could get in 2021, get a 2nd for Cam (shouldn’t be hard) and go for it with the extra cap in 2022/2023 through 2025/2026. I think that’s our best chance to win a SB. 

I agree with this, it's our best chance, but it is a chance and fans need to be aware of that little piece...however this road that we have been on is clearly not working, time for a shake up, even if it doesn't work out.

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1 hour ago, thefuzz said:

I agree with this, it's our best chance, but it is a chance and fans need to be aware of that little piece...however this road that we have been on is clearly not working, time for a shake up, even if it doesn't work out.

Exactly. We could have played it safe and stuck with Ron. We could play it safe and try to get Cam back to where he was and hope we have enough cap and picks to fill in around him. I’d rather shake things up because we have clearly been on the downswing since the SB. We seem to have a 10 year cycle. Rebuild and then playoff runs and a SB, then a fall apart, change coach and QBS and back to rebuild. We are in the falling apart/change coach part. Do we move on from Cam too?

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Oh how soon we forget. If Cam is healthy (that's not to say he'll never get injured again) then he doesn't need much help on the offensive side of the ball. Why is that so hard to understand? He doesn't need pro bowl WRs or RBs or even average OC playcalling to get to the Super Bowl. He needs average to slightly above average protection in the pocket. This isn't theory people. This has been proven. 

Now imagine CMC, Moore, and Samuel in 2015 with Brady calling plays? If you can't be excited about that reality, then you really need to re-evaluate your motives. Fix the oline. Fix the interior dline. Bring back Cam. Kick everyone's Arse!

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