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musicman

Smart moves....

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2 hours ago, WarPanthers89 said:

So why let your player go for zero return when rebuilding? If you are tearing down and rebuilding the roster wouldn’t you load up on draft picks? We let a 26 year old 5x pro bowl guard go for...a one year rental at tackle thats more expensive and 32 years old. We let a 30 year old MVP QB go for nothing because we screwed up the situation so bad. We are going to end up not even getting a 6th round pick for him. We let Reid go for nothing. I love the team and have no problem with a total rebuild but we are not being very smart on loading up on picks. Hell ATLANTA got a 2nd round pick for a 30 year old wr3 in Sanu. We are letting our talent go for nothing and getting no comp picks in return. 

You let Turner go to rid the future contract after 2020 (and he was a little banged up last year) and brought in a good LT to give Little a year more to develop (since he missed most of the year injured). Smart move.

Cam situation is not the teams fault or Cams. Nobody would trade anything worth it for him until they know he's healthy and he wanted a little more security (which I don't blame him). It was a no win situation any way it turned out. Bridgewater being available was he unknown as other teams wanted him. And watch some tape, he can throw the ball down field. 

Reid I'm not sure why but he may have not been the "team player" Rhule wants, is my guess. As for letting talent go for nothing, they weren't that good based on last year so how much do you think you would have gotten? Everybody wants draft picks more than older vets that didn't do so well the year before. 

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2 hours ago, Daddy_Uncle said:

It's the only thing you can do when you when you are tearing down in rebuilding your roster. Signing big names is pointless and defeats the purpose right now. 5 year time line. Not even started year 1. No reason to sign big names until we are ready to go for it and win big

Plus we are in cap hell!!

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3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Rhule undoubtedly turned college programs around. My biggest concern is that despite those turnarounds, his teams still didn't have success against good teams. In 7 seasons as a college coach, he went a combined 2-17 against ranked top 25 competition - and those two wins weren't exactly against traditional powerhouses, they were against an at the time #20 Navy and an at the time #21 East Carolina. There aren't any Vanderbilts or Texas Christians to play in the NFL. The worst team in a league of 32 is still the equivalent of a borderline top 25 team in the NCAA.

True. He was at Temple 4 of those years. And Baylor. Baylor is not top program to begin with and with what hey went through that's not shocking at all.

No reason to be anything but optimistic because right now why not? Even if it's force optimism.

 

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5 hours ago, Daddy_Uncle said:

It's the only thing you can do when you when you are tearing down in rebuilding your roster. Signing big names is pointless and defeats the purpose right now. 5 year time line. Not even started year 1. No reason to sign big names until we are ready to go for it and win big

I'm not at all sure that any big name good FA's are going to want to sign here, are you? 

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6 hours ago, Gladniator1 said:

I've always thought it was smarter to trade back and accumulate as many 2nd and 3rd round picks as possible and then doing BPA over and over.  After a couple of years, you're deep at every position with no one taking up huge amounts of space.  If they bust, so what you have tons of other players.  Busting on a 3rd rounder is easier to handle than a 1st rounder.  And while you think you may lose out on those "blue chip" players in reality they bust just as often and many times 2nd and 3rd rounders turn out to be the real blue chips.

Do not trade back when you have a top 7-8 pick.  Game changers do more than solid starters.

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ill just say it this organization sucks , i love this team but we suck

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My take is with all these younger no name players who are hungry we will see what Rhule can do with them .  This will let us know how good a coach he is .  If we can have a decent year with this team we know we have a keeper coach.  I don't think Rivera could win 3 games with this team . Lets see what culture change Rhule can make .  It will start with the draft to see what kind of future we have .  

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You know what would be great? If our FO could agree on whether they are re-tooling or re-building

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40 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

You know what would be great? If our FO could agree on whether they are re-tooling or re-building

Its almost the same thing. Any lawyer could argue one way or the other. It was posted above, lets see what Rhule can do with hungry young players. I see them building a system and see who fits then building a a system around a player. Smart, as we did that with Cam and it cost us more years of losing than success, not Cam's fault. 

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Roberts, Kirkwood, and Cooper (the last of which I fully get) are all WRs which makes me scratch my head a little bit considering that this draft is deep at the position, but they know their plan. It could be that they simply plan to tackle offense with FA and  defense with the draft. That should make some people happy. 

Don't forget Teddy, Okung & Devalve either. We're heavy on offense in FA, and unlike some of you, I see where we could work with what we got on offense, even from this point. If we acquire Robby Anderson, I could see us going all defense in the draft!

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What the OP says might well be true.  The first thing I do when we sign somebody is look at their age.  The vast majority are 27 or under.  That was exactly the age I said that if I spent last year as a Panther, and I was older than, I would be concerned about my tenure on this team.

We spent the last few offseasons with the assumption we were just a couple of players away.  The penalty for continuing to build a roster in that manner is the players you are counting on get older, get hurt, or just decline.  The roster was aging out.  Add the penalty of dead cap space which is almost inevitable, and you have where we are right now.  Newsflash: we are not the first team to ever make that mistake. 

The only way to avoid aging out and rebuilding periodically is by continuously replacing players before they hit the decline.  Fans criticize those moves, but fans play the short game.  For 20 years, the Pats have been in a mode of continuously replacing players, with the exception of Brady.  And by all reports, Hoodie wanted to replace him a couple of years ago but was stopped by Kraft.

Which brings us to Cam.  Last year was a crusher.  Had he returned sometime in the second half of the season to prove the injuries, particularly the shoulder, were history, we could have either moved forward with him or gotten something significant for him in return.  Given our OL, he might have gotten killed if he tried, but I digress.  None of that happened. 

So, we enter a rebuild (Hurney and others may say otherwise, but it is what it is), and we face starting it with a QB essentially on a one-year contract in an unknown state of health.  On the surface, the one-year thing is not horrible, but it elevates the QB position to a short-term need.  Not THE need, but a priority.  Swapping one year of Cam for three years of TB at essentially a “fixed price” buys us a year or two before we have to look seriously at QBs, unless TB goes down to injury.  Is TB better than Cam right now?  Nobody knows, but Brady believes TB fits his system, which is something.

Fans are reactionary.  As a group, we tend to play checkers on the chess board.  We want immediate results, which is often at conflict with long-term success.  Will all this work?  Who knows?  It may not, and it almost certainly will not in 2020.  I don’t believe it gels in 2021, either, but moving on from the false belief that we are a couple of players was just digging a deeper hole. 

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17 hours ago, WarPanthers89 said:

The issue is we are making rebuild moves while other moves look like we are trying to compete. I still don’t understand trading Turner for a one year, more expensive rental, rather than getting draft picks. We are signing no name players but still have massive holes at 2 guard spots, DT, DE, WLB, 2 corner sports, and a LOT of depth. I  really can’t think of a single move that we have made that I would consider “smart”. 

Methinks we'll be drafting defense heavy with maybe a WR and/or C in the mix.       

The Turner move is definitely head scratching especially considering we willingly took on a ton more dead cash for 2020 with Okung.  It was a clear indicator they weren't interested in spending this year but open things up beyond.  But then why just rent a guy for a dumb year? You have to factor in he must be able to teach up Little and Daley. 

Since we're scrapping Cam, it must have simply been a coach decision to bring in his guy, have a player/teacher on the line and they think they can re-sign him if good for a smaller contract for the next few years.  Brace for no early offensive lineman in the draft.    

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14 hours ago, DamnItJake! said:

Plus we are in cap hell!!

Actually, quite the opposite.  We're carrying a lot of dead cap for 2020 (48 million) but we're using that to restrict us from taking any valuable talent for 2020 so we can rebuild.  You need to carry a certain % of cap and we were clearly not looking to add any huge contracts yet so a quarter of our cap is filled with dead money.  

We'll have $60 mil+ to spend next offseason.

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1 hour ago, saX man said:

Actually, quite the opposite.  We're carrying a lot of dead cap for 2020 (48 million) but we're using that to restrict us from taking any valuable talent for 2020 so we can rebuild.  You need to carry a certain % of cap and we were clearly not looking to add any huge contracts yet so a quarter of our cap is filled with dead money.  

We'll have $60 mil+ to spend next offseason.

At some point, dead cap space starts determining who stays on the roster when they have not earned the spot.  Constantly chasing those "one or two players" will eventually put you there.  It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of extending/restructuring current players, signing FAs to be those "one or two players," watching it fall short, rinsing, and repeating (without the rinse, really).  Then one day something happens and the can can't be kicked down the road any more.

I don't think we were there, but I do believe we were headed in that direction.  What they have done so far to correct that make the cap numbers in future years look pretty good.  But, Hurney is not done yet, although he may be wearing a training collar this time around.

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