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Panthers alumni answer questions about Cam Newton

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9 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Thats all you guys do. Throw verbal grenades.. and then try to call me combative...So prove me wrong with facts. 

Your "facts" have been all over the place starting with how your opinion on whether or not record matters depends solely upon whether or not you personally like the player being discussed. If it's Cam, only the win/loss record matter. Well, not exactly. Only the losses actually matter. You'll just ignore the fact that Cam has a winning record as a starting QB on a franchise that has an overall losing record. Cam has no back to back winning seasons... ignoring the fact that the Panthers don't have back to back winning seasons in their entire franchise history. Oh, we're talking about CMC now? Toss the record out the window. Yeah, we were 5-11 last season, but just look at CMC's stats! I agree with you on one thing - football is the ultimate team sport.  You can have outstanding individual performances in losing efforts. Just don't move the goalposts around to fit your point of view based on the player you're discussing.

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5 minutes ago, rico6 said:

You think Matt Ryan in any universe is better than Cam Newton lol. Hell, if the NFL wasn't so gung-ho to hand the MVP Trophy back to the "traditional" Quarterback (Ryan) he wouldn't have even gotten MVP over Julio that year.

Ryan owes the biggest accolade of his NFL career to Cam imho.

Well the numbers agree with me. You can't argue those. I tell you what. Pick ANY top tier QB and compare them to Cam. Again I offered up Russell Wilson but there have been no takers. Heck.. do Brees, do any Tier 1 QB who has been in the league as long as Cam over the same period of time and compare. I'll wait. 

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16 minutes ago, Bytes said:

You right I am not. You guys just dont like the facts. So give me facts that show Cam is as good as you guys say and compare them to his peers. Say Russell Wilson... similar styles right? sort of any. Dont show me no franchise record BS. Please. And if I am wrong I will shut up and admit it. 

Lol. Go back through this thread and literally read my arguments. You are doing nothing but proving exactly what I just said.

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4 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Well the numbers agree with me. You can't argue those. I tell you what. Pick ANY top tier QB and compare them to Cam. Again I offered up Russell Wilson but there have been no takers. Heck.. do Brees, do any Tier 1 QB who has been in the league as long as Cam over the same period of time and compare. I'll wait. 

Now it's about your "Tier 1 QB's."

Lmao. Dude, you are hilarious. 

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3 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Well the numbers agree with me. You can't argue those. I tell you what. Pick ANY top tier QB and compare them to Cam. Again I offered up Russell Wilson but there have been no takers. Heck.. do Brees, do any Tier 1 QB who has been in the league as long as Cam over the same period of time and compare. I'll wait. 

The numbers? That Matty Checkdown who has been infinitely blessed and surrounded by the best offensive talent in the history of this league is marginally a better statistical QB than Cam?

 

fug off man. 

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6 minutes ago, rico6 said:

The numbers? That Matty Checkdown who has been infinitely blessed and surrounded by the best offensive talent in the history of this league is marginally a better statistical QB than Cam?

 

fug off man. 

LOL! Man this is dumbest thing since Icege last statement. Really? How about Brady with the Greatest WR of this generation, Moss, Elderman, Welker. How about the Big Ben with AB, Bell? How about Mahomes, with Hill, Kelsee? 

But I digress... do your comparison, support your claim, and if I am wrong I will shut up. 

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8 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Well the numbers agree with me. You can't argue those. I tell you what. Pick ANY top tier QB and compare them to Cam. Again I offered up Russell Wilson but there have been no takers. Heck.. do Brees, do any Tier 1 QB who has been in the league as long as Cam over the same period of time and compare. I'll wait. 

 

 

 

 

 

Fine. I'll actually entertain this and do the groundwork one time.

Let's look at Cam and Russell Wilson. They've started a nearly identical number of games. 128 for Wilson vs. 124 for Cam. 

Wilson has 29734 career passing yards vs. 29041 for Cam. That's 232ypg for Wilson and 234ypg for Cam. Virtually identical.

Wilson has a sizable advantage in TD passes with 227 vs 182 for Cam. That's 1.77 per game for Wilson and 1.47 for Cam.

But, Cam has a sizable advantage in rushing yardage with 4806 vs. 3993 for Wilson and a HUGE advantage in rushing TDs with 58 for Cam vs. 19 for Wilson. Overall, Wilson has accounted for 246 TDs vs. 238 for Cam. That's 1.92 per game for each.

Wilson has an advantage in career completion percentage at 62.3% vs. Cam's 59.6%, but interestingly enough the highest single season completion percentage between the two goes to Cam in the one season he played in Norv's offense instead of Shula's "please save me Cam" offense. Cam, the QB who "can't evolve" and "isn't accurate" completed 67.9% of his passes that season.

The biggest advantage Wilson holds is INTs with 68 career INTs vs. Cam's 108. That's 0.53 per game for Wilson and 0.87 per game for Cam.

It's worth noting that Wilson enjoyed the luxury of playing with a 1000+ yard rusher in 5 of his 8 seasons. Cam enjoyed that same luxury exactly once while leading the Panthers in rushing yardage and/or rushing TDs in virtually every season that he played.

Russell Wilson is a fantastic QB, but the overall numbers are probably much closer than you anticipated while Cam has historically carried the far higher offensive burden for his team over the course of their careers.

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4 minutes ago, Bytes said:

LOL! Man this is dumbest thing since Icege last statement. Really? How about Brady with the Greatest WR of this generation, Moss, Elderman, Welker. How about the Big Ben with AB, Bell? How about Mahomes, with Hill, Kelsee? 

But I digress... do your comparison, support your claim, and if I am wrong I will shut up. 

Tony G, Julio Jones, His Offensive Line, Turner, Shanahan's kid, Michael Turner >>>>>>>> anything Cam has ever had in his entire tenure here. EVER.

idc what you stupid homers says Tony Gonzalez might be a prick but he >> Greg Olsen any day of the week.

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6 minutes ago, rico6 said:

idc what you stupid homers says Tony Gonzalez might be a prick but he >> Greg Olsen any day of the week.

That's not even a knock in the slightest on Olsen either. Gonzalez is probably the GOAT TE.

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19 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's not even a knock in the slightest on Olsen either. Gonzalez is probably the GOAT TE.

He definitely is.  

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41 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

 

 

 

 

 

Fine. I'll actually entertain this and do the groundwork one time.

Let's look at Cam and Russell Wilson. They've started a nearly identical number of games. 128 for Wilson vs. 124 for Cam. 

Wilson has 29734 career passing yards vs. 29041 for Cam. That's 232ypg for Wilson and 234ypg for Cam. Virtually identical.

Wilson has a sizable advantage in TD passes with 227 vs 182 for Cam. That's 1.77 per game for Wilson and 1.47 for Cam.

But, Cam has a sizable advantage in rushing yardage with 4806 vs. 3993 for Wilson and a HUGE advantage in rushing TDs with 58 for Cam vs. 19 for Wilson. Overall, Wilson has accounted for 246 TDs vs. 238 for Cam. That's 1.92 per game for each.

Wilson has an advantage in career completion percentage at 62.3% vs. Cam's 59.6%, but interestingly enough the highest single season completion percentage between the two goes to Cam in the one season he played in Norv's offense instead of Shula's "please save me Cam" offense. Cam, the QB who "can't evolve" and "isn't accurate" completed 67.9% of his passes that season.

The biggest advantage Wilson holds is INTs with 68 career INTs vs. Cam's 108. That's 0.53 per game for Wilson and 0.87 per game for Cam.

It's worth noting that Wilson enjoyed the luxury of playing with a 1000+ yard rusher in 5 of his 8 seasons. Cam enjoyed that same luxury exactly once while leading the Panthers in rushing yardage and/or rushing TDs in virtually every season that he played.

Russell Wilson is a fantastic QB, but the overall numbers are probably much closer than you anticipated while Cam has historically carried the far higher offensive burden for his team over the course of their careers.

Passing Yds: Wilson
Passing TDs: Wilson
Completion %: Wilson
Passing Rating: Wilson
Rushing Yds: Newton
Rushing TDs: Newton

Excuses listed in Post: 4

Pretty much what I thought. Cam is a great rushing QB and an avg passer at best. Also Its interesting you used Wilson's playoff passing completion % but used Newton's regular season completion %. It should be 64.5 (Not 62.3) to 59.6. And no the highest completion percentage in a year does not got to Cam. Russel Wilson completed 68.1 in 2015. And it's telling you keep hanging your hat on that one season. To that point... Cam has NEVER had a passing rating 100 or more in a season. Wilson's CAREER QB Rating is over 100. So stop getting mad about what is fact and move on. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Passing Yds: Wilson
Passing TDs: Wilson
Completion %: Wilson
Passing Rating: Wilson
Rushing Yds: Newton
Rushing TDs: Newton

Excuses listed in Post: 4

Pretty much what I thought. Cam is a great rushing QB and an avg passer at best. Also Its interesting you used Wilson's playoff passing completion % but used Newton's regular season completion %. It should be 64.5 (Not 62.3) to 59.6. And no the highest completion percentage in a year does not got to Cam. Russel Wilson completed 68.1 in 2015. And it's telling you keep hanging your hat on that one season. To that point... Cam has NEVER had a passing rating 100 or more in a season. Wilson's CAREER QB Rating is over 100. So stop getting mad about what is fact and move on. 

To add on, those 50 less interceptions posted by Wilson are a huge difference. The kind of difference that can make it break a career.

Edit so I don't get attacked: I am a huge Cam fan. Own the jerseys, loved him coming out of college, relentlessly argued for him over Luck. But I have the awareness to admit he is not the best passing QB out there.

Edited by Jaxel
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3 minutes ago, Jaxel said:

To add on, those 50 less interceptions posted by Wilson are a huge difference. The kind of difference that can make it break a career.

Edit so I don't get attacked: I am a huge Cam fan. Own the jerseys, loved him coming out of college, relentlessly argued for him over Luck. But I have the awareness to admit he is not the best passing QB out there.

I am too. But man people on here talk about HoF, He's better than 31 other QBs in the league, etc.. its crazy and counter productive. Move on. 

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I saw something in the Wilson stats vs Newton stats that stuck out. It illustrates why I am not a big believer in statistics, or should I say maybe the use of them to make arguments and rankings.

 

it stands to reason that with a QB getting so many carries, his team would have fewer RBs totaling 1000 yards in a season. Especially when the RBs are committee which we have done a lot of before C Mac.

 

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29 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Passing Yds: Wilson
Passing TDs: Wilson
Completion %: Wilson
Passing Rating: Wilson
Rushing Yds: Newton
Rushing TDs: Newton

Excuses listed in Post: 4

Pretty much what I thought. Cam is a great rushing QB and an avg passer at best. Also Its interesting you used Wilson's playoff passing completion % but used Newton's regular season completion %. It should be 64.5 (Not 62.3) to 59.6. And no the highest completion percentage in a year does not got to Cam. Russel Wilson completed 68.1 in 2015. And it's telling you keep hanging your hat on that one season. To that point... Cam has NEVER had a passing rating 100 or more in a season. Wilson's CAREER QB Rating is over 100. So stop getting mad about what is fact and move on. 

Interesting you spike your football over Wilson's passing yardage when they per game numbers break down to virtually identical, actually slightly favoring Cam. Yep, my fault on mixing up the playoff vs. regular season numbers. Tough bouncing between screens trying to compile data that someone else refuses to do. That "one season" was the only season Cam actually played in a passer friendly system. Shula's offense required him to constantly make the toughest throws a QB has to make - contested downfield passes. 

I'm not arguing that Cam is a better PASSER than Russell Wilson. Honestly, I don't think he is. But, as an overall QB? It's a helluva lot closer than you're willing to admit.

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1 hour ago, rico6 said:

Tony G, Julio Jones, His Offensive Line, Turner, Shanahan's kid, Michael Turner >>>>>>>> anything Cam has ever had in his entire tenure here. EVER.

idc what you stupid homers says Tony Gonzalez might be a prick but he >> Greg Olsen any day of the week.

First Tony G played 5 years in Atlanta, he was on the end of his career. He never had a 1000 yd receiver year in ATL. But he had 5 before he got there.  Also... Ryan's stats are way better after he left.. same with Turner. And I didnt know Kyle Shanahan played WR? Olsen was no slouch either. He probably would have had better numbers if he has a better passer. And Cam played with Steve Smith for 3 years. Lastly the Falcons have had one of the worse O Lines in the NFL the past 4 years. Look at how many sacks we get against them. Man do your homework. 

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