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NanuqoftheNorth

Explosion in Beirut Lebanon

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1 hour ago, Harbingers said:

Disregarding the latter half of your statement. Have you looked at a map of Beirut? It was directly between city center and the port. Worst possible spot it could have happened in.

I mean, I know there were stores and condos in the area, but generally business ports aren't heavily populated. And if you don't think the whole Israel/Lebanon etc etc etc back and forth isn't behind this, well that's your right. Could very easily be an accident. But I think there is more to it. And no, I don't think Hezbollah bombed their own country, lol. I'm no 9/11 tin foil nut. I think someone wanted to send a message to them.

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When I first saw reports of a large explosion in Beirut, my first thought was terrorist.  That city has been wracked with violence to long to not consider the possibility.  But when the reports said port facility, I thought maybe not.  Terrorist tend to attack high visibility targets such as government facilities.  Port facility probably means accident.  There are lots of things that might burn or go boom in a port facility and the adjacent storage areas.  Witness our own Navy's recent fire in San Diego.  Alternatively, there is a slight possibility of some group of guerrilla fighters hitting a ship unloading weapons and supplies. 

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52 minutes ago, Bronn said:

Here it is, in storage, apparently:

ySdKpPD.jpg

Sweet baby jesus. So let's just store 2,700 tons of ANFO, nose-to-tail, and stacked two high in poorly ventilated, non-climate-controlled metal box. Yeah, you don't exactly have to be UBL to make that go bang.

Yeah, this was an unforeseeable disaster the same way that Timothy Treadwell's death was.

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good summary of available information

Quote

The cause of the explosion appears to be a large cache of ammonium nitrate fertilizer that was in a warehouse at the port. The fertilizer had been removed from a cargo ship that had mechanical problems and docked there a couple of years ago. The ship was abandoned by the owners and the whole thing dragged on as random bureaucrats and legal clerks shuffled around paper about it. For whatever reason, that warehouse caught fire (alleged a shipment of fireworks sparked off) and that started a reaction which caused the fertilizer to explode. The fire burned for a while, so people were looking in the direction, and the sheer quantity of the fertilizer piled up in one place created a supersonic blast wave that was invisible once the water vapor dispersed and silent until it passed. 

The western media is blaming Lebanese "incompetence" but this is a cover for their own systematic incompetence which created the conditions to put Beirut in this situation. This was an international bureaucracy and capitalist failure which just happened to manifest the consequences upon the innocent people of Lebabon. 

The ocean-going cargo ship was flagged to Moldova, a landlocked country with one tiny shipping port on a river 100 km inland from the sea. The ship was flagged there for tax and inspection evasion purposes. The coast guard of your "home" country can never inspect your boat and order things repaired if you never dock there. This lack of inspection may have contributed to whatever the issue was that forced it to port. Most cargo ships are registered to tax shelters like this, Liberia, Bahamas, Panama, etc. are all popular. 

The cargo was just a simple shipment of fertilizer from Georgia (the Stalin one not the Klan one) to Mozambique in 2014. The ship had some kind of emergency issue and had to dock someplace, and that place turned out to be Beirut for whatever reason. There's not many major ports around that area, they may have just had the most suitable dock space open to the travelers. The zionists were probably closed to providing assistance to needy people, so it looks like the only other options for a struggling ship in that area of the med would be Limassol Cyprus, or Alexandria or Port Said Egypt. They may have been full, or had immigration/diplomatic issues, or cost too much, or the ship just couldn't get there. 

Once the ship was docked in Beirut and inspected, the owners decided it was not economical to repair, and abandoned the ship, cargo, and crew. Some of the crew were repatriated and some had to sit there on the failing ship for a while in legal limbo because of immigration clearance issues. The cargo was removed to the warehouse and sat there while Lebanon had to figure out wtf to do with these dudes, their boat, and the fertilizer. 

So first the Lebanese had to determine who legally owned each separate piece of this mess, then communicate with the responsible companies and countries, then wait for them to respond or not. The shipper was probably most legally responsible but decided they didn't give a poo about a rust bucket with some fertilizer and may possibly have just dissolved and gone dark. Mozambique lost interest in the fertilizer because the seasons continued to turn and they probably just bought some from someplace else and considered it a dropped shipment or a scam like happens to the global south all the time. The fertilizer plant in Georgia obviously didn't want to pay for it to be shipped back. The Lebanese couldn't seize it and distribute it to their farmers or dispose of it without going through the international legal processes. 

To Moldova, Georgia, Mozambique, and whichever governments the ship's captain and insurance and the owner hailed from, this was just a tangled minor legal mess a couple thousand kilometers away over a flaky shipping company and some fertilizer. The port of Beirut probably has/had just a handful of people who could work on this and they were also busy being involved in every single other bit of shipping that went through the place all day every day. Every clerk in every country this passed through probably had a job that didn't really involve dealing with this kind of thing on a daily basis, there was no real money in it for anyone, and whoever was sorting it out had to go through like 6 languages and 8 international legal systems. 

And every single one of those countries and the international shipping capitalists who actually created the material conditions that caused the blast will blame Lebanon, who ultimately did nothing but have the human decency to offer a safe harbor to a stricken ship at sea. Because their port authority warehoused the cargo that those companies and countries dumped on them. 

There's a similar situation in Yemen where the Saudi aggressors have seized an oil/gas tanker a few years ago and it's sitting just offshore a port city waiting to either explode or leak/sink.

 

  • Pie 3

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5 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

good summary of available information

 

Yeah, I think that about sums it up. I great deal of bureaucracy and red tape certainly contributed to this disaster. But you cannot discount the incompetence and negligence of the Lebanese port authorities completely. That's not a slight on the Lebanese people or government. But in spite of how complicated it was logistically, legally, and diplomatically, you simply can't have thousands of tons of an explosive agent sit on your dock for six years. You've simply got to find a way to address it. If it was a shipment of uranium or tannerite, it would have been addressed in spite of how much administrivia or staff shortage they were dealing with. I'd say the same if had happened in a port here.

There are many parties to blame here. Regardless of whom, it's a shame, and I'm sad that so many lives were lost, and so many lives will be affected by the loss of property and economic ramifications of this disaster, when it seems it was so foreseeable and preventable.

 

It makes me wonder about how much of this is going on in our own back yards.

Is there a truck full of Plutonium Oxide powder sitting in an air base 3 miles from my house that no one knows what to do with because of a typo on the shipping manifest? Are there cultures of anthrax in some hospital laboratory that have been sitting around since the 1980s that everyone forgot about? Apparently, we'll never know until something goes wrong.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Captroop said:

Sweet baby jesus. So let's just store 2,700 tons of ANFO, nose-to-tail, and stacked two high in poorly ventilated, non-climate-controlled metal box. Yeah, you don't exactly have to be UBL to make that go bang.

Yeah, this was an unforeseeable disaster the same way that Timothy Treadwell's death was.

I meant to mention this before, but...

Correct me if I am wrong. This is technically only the AN portion of ANFO, right? It only becomes ANFO when you add the fuel oil additive to actually make it an improvised explosive, I think.

IIRC it takes heat and force to make the AN part volatile, and the FO part assists in both of those.

That is why I suspected that it was getting hot the whole time the fireworks factory was burning, and once the explosive chemicals started actually exploding (they didn't look like other fireworks explosions because they weren't yet packaged in final ordinance round) in storage, then that added the force component/multiplied the heat.

Edited by Bronn

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4 minutes ago, Captroop said:

It makes me wonder about how much of this is going on in our own back yards.

 

I think you'd be surprised.

People come and go to jobs, jobs/businesses come and go, property changes hands, paperwork sits on desks or in file cabinets for years, etc. etc. and things just get forgotten.

That's the unintentional consequences of situations like this.

Now ponder the things like this that people, for whatever reasons, intentionally neglect to take care of.

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19 minutes ago, Captroop said:

It makes me wonder about how much of this is going on in our own back yards.

Is there a truck full of Plutonium Oxide powder sitting in an air base 3 miles from my house that no one knows what to do with because of a typo on the shipping manifest? Are there cultures of anthrax in some hospital laboratory that have been sitting around since the 1980s that everyone forgot about? Apparently, we'll never know until something goes wrong.

The way this year is going all of those questions will be answered in the next 5 months.

  • Pie 2

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21 minutes ago, Captroop said:

It makes me wonder about how much of this is going on in our own back yards.

Is there a truck full of Plutonium Oxide powder sitting in an air base 3 miles from my house that no one knows what to do with because of a typo on the shipping manifest? Are there cultures of anthrax in some hospital laboratory that have been sitting around since the 1980s that everyone forgot about? Apparently, we'll never know until something goes wrong.

administrative negligence is happening all over and manifesting itself in various ways. you might not get blown up because you happen to be lucky enough to not live in a port. you might instead just die an early painful death or bear physically or developmentally disabled children because your town’s water supply is being poisoned by local industry or your old pipes are mixing in a dose of lead.

hell if you live in or around goldsboro you or your parents or grandparents were very nearly nuked by the military lol

Quote

The military studied the bombs and learned that six of seven steps to blow up one of them had engaged, according to The Register. Only one trigger stopped a blast — that switch was set to "ARM" yet somehow failed to detonate the bomb.

It was only "by the slightest margin of chance, literally the failure of two wires to cross, a nuclear explosion was averted," a declassified 1963 memo described Robert McNamara, the secretary of defense at the time, as saying.

 

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16 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

administrative negligence is happening all over and manifesting itself in various ways. you might not get blown up because you happen to be lucky enough to not live in a port. you might instead just die an early painful death or bear physically or developmentally disabled children because your town’s water supply is being poisoned by local industry or your old pipes are mixing in a dose of lead.

hell if you live in or around goldsboro you or your parents or grandparents were very nearly nuked by the military lol

The scientific community has been warning of an unprecedented environmental crisis for years.  Yet even now, neither presidential candidate is willing to support the minimal policy changes required to avoid a global disaster that threatens our very existence as a species.    

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1 hour ago, Bronn said:

I meant to mention this before, but...

Correct me if I am wrong. This is technically only the AN portion of ANFO, right? It only becomes ANFO when you add the fuel oil additive to actually make it an improvised explosive, I think.

IIRC it takes heat and force to make the AN part volatile, and the FO part assists in both of those.

That is why I suspected that it was getting hot the whole time the fireworks factory was burning, and once the explosive chemicals started actually exploding (they didn't look like other fireworks explosions because they weren't yet packaged in final ordinance round) in storage, then that added the force component/multiplied the heat.

Yeah, I'm using ANFO a little loosely here to drive home the significance. If you were to tell people that Nitroglycerine was laying around in huge quantities, you wouldn't need to elaborate that it's a critical component in dynamite for them to understand how dangerous it was. But I think most people probably don't know ammonium nitrate as anything other than a fertilizer.

And you're right about the requirements to make it an explosive. Which is the part I'm still trying to figure out. If it just burned up in a fire, you'd expect that it would just be an enormous, and extremely powerful fireball that grew as the ammonium nitrate burned. I'm not super familiar with the speed of the chemical reaction of AN turning to oxygen, nitrogen and water vapor, but I'm surprised that just burning it would be sufficient to cause an explosive reaction.

The best I could figure is the warehouse itself was acting as a pressure cooker that allowed the temperature inside to reach a sufficient temperature throughout the container to cause a combustion. And once all the air inside reached the combustion temperature, it all went up at once.

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Quote

There are two major classes of incidents resulting in explosions:

  • In the first case, the explosion happens by the mechanism of shock to detonation transition. The initiation happens by an explosive charge going off in the mass, by the detonation of a shell thrown into the mass, or by detonation of an explosive mixture in contact with the mass. The examples are Kriewald, Morgan, Oppau, Tessenderlo, and Traskwood.
  • In the second case, the explosion results from a fire that spreads into the ammonium nitrate (AN) itself (Texas City, Brest, Tianjin, Beirut), or to a mixture of an ammonium nitrate with a combustible material during the fire. The fire must be confined at least to a degree for successful transition from a fire to an explosion (a phenomenon known as "deflagration to detonation transition", or DDT). Pure, compact AN is stable and very difficult to initiate. However, there are numerous cases when even impure AN did not explode in a fire.

Yeah, that's about what I expected. If it had just been a fire, AN is stable enough that it would have just burned up. The way it was contained in the warehouse probably contributed to what ended up being an explosive reaction.

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10 minutes ago, Captroop said:

Yeah, I'm using ANFO a little loosely here to drive home the significance. If you were to tell people that Nitroglycerine was laying around in huge quantities, you wouldn't need to elaborate that it's a critical component in dynamite for them to understand how dangerous it was. But I think most people probably don't know ammonium nitrate as anything other than a fertilizer.

And you're right about the requirements to make it an explosive. Which is the part I'm still trying to figure out. If it just burned up in a fire, you'd expect that it would just be an enormous, and extremely powerful fireball that grew as the ammonium nitrate burned. I'm not super familiar with the speed of the chemical reaction of AN turning to oxygen, nitrogen and water vapor, but I'm surprised that just burning it would be sufficient to cause an explosive reaction.

The best I could figure is the warehouse itself was acting as a pressure cooker that allowed the temperature inside to reach a sufficient temperature throughout the container to cause a combustion. And once all the air inside reached the combustion temperature, it all went up at once.

Yeah, I think you're pretty close.

I did read somewhere that 6-7 years of sitting in environmental conditions would actually allow it to absorb environmental elements that could act as/mimic the FO part, making it potentially more volatile.

I think once the first bag/container of it ignited, that was all she wrote. The rest of it immediately chain reacted (almost instantaneously)  due to the storage conditions and whatever it has been saturated with throughout the years.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bronn said:

Correct me if I am wrong. This is technically only the AN portion of ANFO, right? It only becomes ANFO when you add the fuel oil additive to actually make it an improvised explosive, I think.

You are correct. If, in fact, the AN is that which is shown in the photos, it has not been mixed with FO (fuel oil), and ANFO is typically used in mining as a controlled explosive.

1 hour ago, Bronn said:

That is why I suspected that it was getting hot the whole time the fireworks factory was burning, and once the explosive chemicals started actually exploding (they didn't look like other fireworks explosions because they weren't yet packaged in final ordinance round) in storage, then that added the force component/multiplied the heat.

Also true. As AN gets hot and it begins a chemical decomposition which, among other things, results in some water vapor, which is clearly visible in the white cloud that appears immediately at the time of explosion and quickly disappears.

Pack the stuff as tight as possible, let it sit on top of each other and further compact it, over a period of years is right up there with the well-known lesson of leaving piles of old paint rags laying around. Or, for those of us who spent any time on Navy ships, JP-5. You can put a cigarette out in a puddle of JP-5; but pressurize it, heat it up a little and you've got yourself a fire.

Edited by Anybodyhome

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fuging called it that Russians would be involved.  Always God damn Russians...

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