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CatMan72

Schefter: 2014 cap rising 5% to 130 million (extra 7 million for us to spend)

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I do find it interesting that people want to use the extra money to dump both Williams and Stewart.  So who replaces them?  Barner?  Tolbert?  Maybe Tolbert, but for an entire season?  He'd have to lose that FB weight to run the ball 25+ times a game.  I don't think we jettison both at the same time.  At least a healthy Stewart is something we know.  Insert draft pick X isn't a workable formula.

 

Also, I think the bigger increase helps the case for keeping Hardy.  While Cam won't hold out, he's going to get taken care of by the team at some point.  I think Cam would like to have as much of that dominate D back to make his job easier.  Also, the prevailing "winds" from the NFL beat writers is that you don't let 25 year old pass rushers walk, ever.  Not in this NFL.  I will say, that doesn't sound terrible.

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I do find it interesting that people want to use the extra money to dump both Williams and Stewart.  So who replaces them?  Barner?  Tolbert?  Maybe Tolbert, but for an entire season?  He'd have to lose that FB weight to run the ball 25+ times a game.  I don't think we jettison both at the same time.  At least a healthy Stewart is something we know.  Insert draft pick X isn't a workable formula.

 

Also, I think the bigger increase helps the case for keeping Hardy.  While Cam won't hold out, he's going to get taken care of by the team at some point.  I think Cam would like to have as much of that dominate D back to make his job easier.  Also, the prevailing "winds" from the NFL beat writers is that you don't let 25 year old pass rushers walk, ever.  Not in this NFL.  I will say, that doesn't sound terrible.

 

it's a tough call.

 

i was looking at overthecap's salary cap calculator and i'm sure this isn't completely right for stewart and if it is i'd like to know how, but cutting williams after june 1 frees up $2mil. cutting stewart after june 1 makes his dead money the amount his cap space would be if he stayed (which is just under $5.5mil).

 

looking at just the past couple years, esp. last year, williams is the more reliable/healthy. if we were to keep one of them (which i think we should) then williams is who i would keep.

 

if there is some way that we can cut loose one or both williams and stewart and keep hardy, we should do it, imo.

 

as far as what we'd do at RB....well, we'd draft someone and run with the draft pick/tolbert/barner/cam. i don't think we'd see much of a set back in run game production doing that, but what we'd gain is cap space down the road.

 

one thing that we've seen league wide is that you don't need to spend a whole lot on RBs or draft them early to get the production you need in the run game. we can make do with a whole lot less. our run game wasn't one of the best in the league last year because of williams and stewart. it was because of the other guys around and the scheme.

 

we just don't need to have cap space long term committed to those two guys. they just aren't worth it and we need that money to pay players who are worth it.

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I'll withold my excitement until i hear something from a legit source. i don't really trust schefter or espn.

 

it will be great if they aren't, once again, slinging poo to see if it sticks.

 

It's coming from "league executives" so it isn't exactly fact but sounds legit

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000326792/article/nfl-salary-cap-expected-to-increase-to-about-130-m

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So can some kind informed person on the huddle tel me how much cap space WE have now?

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Panthers

 

Based on this $12M before the cap increase. So 16 after and then another 8 if we Jue 1 cut CJ.

 

So we may be looking at $24M soon...which still isn't enough to resign Hardy and extend Cam

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The projected cap was 126, so technically we have 4 extra mil to work with, not 7.

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The projected cap was 126, so technically we have 4 extra mil to work with, not 7.

 

Right, but it's still a 7 million increase over last years cap. 

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Right, but it's still a 7 million increase over last years cap.

True but the op post was misleading.

The cap space are always discussed using the projected cap and not last year's cap.

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releasing Stewart? Not gonna happen.

I'd go into the reasons why, but it's clear common sense isn't common around here.

 

June 1 cut doesn't affect our cap space much. Could happen

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it's a tough call.

 

i was looking at overthecap's salary cap calculator and i'm sure this isn't completely right for stewart and if it is i'd like to know how, but cutting williams after june 1 frees up $2mil. cutting stewart after june 1 makes his dead money the amount his cap space would be if he stayed (which is just under $5.5mil).

 

looking at just the past couple years, esp. last year, williams is the more reliable/healthy. if we were to keep one of them (which i think we should) then williams is who i would keep.

 

if there is some way that we can cut loose one or both williams and stewart and keep hardy, we should do it, imo.

 

as far as what we'd do at RB....well, we'd draft someone and run with the draft pick/tolbert/barner/cam. i don't think we'd see much of a set back in run game production doing that, but what we'd gain is cap space down the road.

 

one thing that we've seen league wide is that you don't need to spend a whole lot on RBs or draft them early to get the production you need in the run game. we can make do with a whole lot less. our run game wasn't one of the best in the league last year because of williams and stewart. it was because of the other guys around and the scheme.

 

we just don't need to have cap space long term committed to those two guys. they just aren't worth it and we need that money to pay players who are worth it.

 

I totally agree that if losing both = Hardy, it's a done deal.  I just don't think it's quite that easy, especially in terms of Stewart's money.  Williams is more than half way through his contract (isn't he?), so there should be much less of a hit if he was kept.

 

When it comes down to going with Tolbert and relative unknown factors for our running game, I'm worried.  While Cam was the man, Williams had a lot of value for us.  We need someone who can make the plays.  I agree as well that there are very few reasons to pay a RB insane money (Adrian Peterson is the only one I'd do that for right now, but he's 29...), BUT I keep coming back to the unknown RB.

 

What is the "pass rate" on rookie RBs?  I still think there is a lot of misses versus the Andre Ellingtons in a class.  So while it might be attractive to cut both our starting RBs, I'd only do it IF it would allow me to keep Hardy.  But I'd be quite worried about the running game since we try to make it the corner stone of our offense.

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June 1 cut doesn't affect our cap space much. Could happen

 

yep.

 

there is some wierd option for 2014 that guarantees his base for the next couple years, but i think can be worked around.

 

here's the contract data from sportrac.

 

 

  • $23 million guaranteed (Signing Bonus, 2012-14 salaries + $2.5M of 2015 base)
  • 2014 Option Bonus: $6.785 million/ 4 years (if declined, becomes guaranteed 2014 salary)
  • $6 million is available through incentives based on 1,200-yard rushing seasons and 1,600 all-purpose yard seasons.
  • 2013 Restructure Bonus: $2.5 million/5 years
  • 2015 Workout Bonus: $250,000
  • 2016-17 Workout Bonus: $750,000

 

 

 

now his signing bonus was $9mil and has already been paid, but prorated so that theres 1.8mil per year that has to be accounted for on our cap. if we cut him loose, that protation accelerates and has to be accounted for all at once which would be 5.4mil, but that number would be cut down by some if he's a june 1 cut.

 

what i've got bolded up above is really interesting. he's got $5.5mil left on his contract that is incentive based. that number has to be accounted for in the cap, but it's money that we wouldn't be responsible for if he for some reason (like being hurt or cut or just not used much) didn't meet that criterion.

 

another intersting thing to me is that while his cap number is 5,496,250 the amount he actually affects the cap by years end is $3.3mil b/c there's no way that he rushes for 1200 yards or gets 1600 all purpose yards.

 

i don't know if his dead money number includes his incentive based numbers, but i know that his cap number has to reflect that.

 

one thing i also don't know is what exactly happens if we don't honor that option bonus that is due him this year. is all that we owe him that $6.785mil for the year or is it less than that because we've gone through one year. and if we don't honor that option and make that money his salary, does that free us up from any long term responsibility on the cap?

 

the more i look at this, the more convinced i am that i don't have a clue what is going on. i do think that there's a lot more available to us as an option than just the suck it up and keep him around at the current cap number or cut him loose and have to account for $18,185,000 of dead money on the cap this year. it's not as black and white as people are making it out to be.

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