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got to think Evans rushing back isn't a good thing, unless this is his last hurrah (which I guess that's been hinted at)

I can't speak for anybody other than me on that. For the record, I absolutely want someone to compete with Bryce. As far as the statistical argument, even accepting that as authoritative (I don't, but you know that) you're still making two mistakes here: 1) A player's career stats aren't a good metric to judge how good they are right now. 2) Too small a sample size can very easily be misleading. Lastly, why are people "so fired up about it"? Again, I can't speak for others, but for me it's simple... I don't think he's anything special. And others may indeed feel the same without necessary having any nefarious ulterior motives.

But that's just an opinion essentially based upon three games---basically nothing. As for "great" career, that's in the eye of the beholder. I'd say that if he becomes a starter or even a high end backup, that may not be great, but it would be good. If he ends up a long term starter, then that is pretty great. But I could argue that less than a dozen QBs have had "great" careers for the last 50 years. It's just a matter of definition. There are certainly a number of QBs drafted higher than Sanders and with much higher expectations that have ended up as backups or out of the league altogether. If he has any kind of staying power, he's already overachieved according to many.

So...yeah, the snark and whataboutism really just works as a dodge here. So is the, but did it win us this game rhetoric or stats don't always tell the truth (because that not actually in play in this specific convo) So again, I'll lay it out one last time....are you actually willing to argue for the sake of arguing the Saints RBs in 2025 are better than ours? and their OL? Is that what you are doing here.

I think outside noise was a MASSIVE factor. Teams don't want it. And it gets really hard to have it for anyone that isn't your star player. I do think for example, if Skip Bayless didn't exist and that circus....NFL teams would have loved the utility player/locker room presence of a The Golden Calf of Bristol after he flamed out as a starting QB. Same thing. But he basically was deemed unsignable because a Taysom Hill role player can't be taking up the air waves/oxygen , press conferences and be a national spectacle every single day for a coach/staff to deal with. I mean, Saunders is literally a walking reality TV show

Mike Evans looks to be back tomorrow https://x.com/gregauman/status/1998793067969786075?s=46&t=RpRteCiOHsmjthnKJkS5fg

Yeah and Phil Snow has the second best defense in the league I'm reminded of 2015 where we used to build up huge leads in the first half just to wind up winning by less than a single score because our second half performance stunk. We built up some pretty good rushing stats over an early stretch in the year. Didn't really help us against the Saints though, or in some of our other losses. Hell, go back and look at past Super Bowl winners. Is it always the team that's ranked first in one category or another? After all, stat rankings always tell you who the best team is, right?

Didn’t say it does, Scot. But as I pointed out earlier, most of the negativity in this thread is due to one of two reasons: 1) Guys that don’t want anyone competing with or taking the starting gig from their boy Bryce. or 2) Guys who dislike/hate Deion and Shedeur. Again, statistically, there are no grounds to pick Bryce as a starter over another QB over the last three seasons. And statistically, what Shedeur is doing as a rookie is impressive thus far, whether he was Deion’s son or not. So if it’s not statistics and the eye test, then why are people so fired up about it? The tells are there.

I think it basically came down to the NFL seriously doubting his ability to be a starting NFL QB and not wanting to bring on all the outside noise that he'd bring for a backup. Backup QBs are expected to be out of sight and out of mind. That doesn't exactly fit the wheelhouse of Shedeur and the Sanders clan, not to mention all the media clamoring about it. Then when he just blew off the entire pre-draft process (which he essentially flat out admitted to) I think he probably dropped completely off a lot of draft boards.

I wouldn't argue he's handled things well in Cleveland since his draft tumble. I give him credit for that. Draft eval really only matters if they got it right. And with Shedeur, I think time will beat out that they did. Like others, he'll leave behind some cool highligh reels, but something less than a great career.

I don't put Bryce any higher than that, but I don't put Murray up there either. And we've touched on the reason: an unfortunate tendency to choke. You can have all the best stats in any game you play in, but if you choke at a crucial point and lose the game, guess how much those stats count for? And I will at least admit this when it comes to Bryce: his game performances of late definitely don't reflect choking. Just the opposite, in fact.

It's a matter of perspective. Hell, TB12 was skipped over 198 times for example. I mean, Montana, Wilson, Dak and a few others were skipped many times before they were drafted. Warner and Romo went undrafted for Pete's sake. Don't get me started on misses (and not just QBs). His attitude didn't help, but it was reported just as much that scouts/execs didn't necessarily believe he was a day one or two guy. Like I suggested, we'll never know the whole story. Moreover, you can't get around the fact that he's handled his situation in Cleveland with flying colors. That's been widely reported as well.

I think you misunderstand what I mean by "significantly better than Bryce Young." That gets you entry into the top 30 NFL starting QB's. Not sure if you have seen that group recently, but it's not a strong one the further down that list you go. Murray is a Tier 3 if not Tier 4 QB in my book.

Here is where you are… for purely the sake of arguing with me you are willing to suggest the 2025 Saints RBs might not be better than the 2025 Panthers RBs lol Saints have the 28th ranked rush attack. We are top 10. The Saints haven’t had a 100 yard rusher the entire season. We have seen franchise best performances in a franchise known for running the rock. and see above for what our OL is also clearly better than the Saints. Hell, Canales being forced into some mashups has often made it even stronger at times

I am not saying there isn't truth to that but the economics and reality of the NFL are producing that. It's very hard to justify taking a guy in the 1st round, shelving him for years, having to make a contract extension and THEN hoping it all turns out okay. Not to mention, imagine that scenario after what we traded for Bryce. One thing is for certain, the QB desperation has led to bad 1st round QB picks for 15+ years now. That ain't new. I think we need to decide on Bryce's future this offseason and we will have to. In my eyes, picking up the 5th year option is the "all-in" move for a two year period. That means you are committed to him in the medium term. Not the move I would personally make. No matter what the decision is, I have been vocal about needing to bring in multiple QB's to improve that QB room for when Bryce falters again. How about just overall improving your team depth so that when it doesn't pan out, you at least have options on the roster? I don't feel like that is too much to ask and it's a valid bet hedge.

Well in this context, there's actually three "guys on the internet with an opinion" If you want more though, a quick search will tell you that Murray isn't necessarily as well thought of as you'd suggest.

Does that really help his case, though? It's generally believed that he dropped as far as he did over the attitude issues. If, however, it wasn't so much the attitude as it was the evaluation of his abilities, that's arguably worse.

Yes, it's you and he. That is two.

As a player yeah, though it would seem he actually has bigger problems now

Brees(like Allen before) was already having a fantastic year by year three. Geno Smith is valid but also remember that by year two he lost his starting job and it was 8 years until he regained it. Alex Smith is a difficult comparison only because he started so infrequently over his first 4 seasons due to injury. It actually really wasn't until Kansas City(his 9th NFL season) that he climbed out of the "Bryce Young" tier of QB's. He actually had almost all of his NFL success post-SF with Andy Reid. He was bad for a significant length of time AND with SF for all of it. This was an exercise in patience that I think basically no one wants to see with Bryce Young and the Panthers. Daniel Jones is a similar-ish track. Wasn't really good until about year 4 and then sort of declined for injury and play related reasons after that. Of course, one could also argue that he really only has had two "good" seasons in his 7 year NFL career including this season. Again, probably not the track we should hope for with Bryce Young. So, I will give you the latter two. Those are good comps. But, also the length of time to turn that around would be pretty bad for us. Both of those guys also were examples of getting a big contract extension that the original team that signed it sorely regretted.

But he was drafted...just not where he wanted to be drafted. No one really can say with ironclad clarity as to why. It was probably a combination of things (including their belief in his capabilities), but it wasn't because he told the Ravens not to draft him, as he did that on day three of the draft (and was drafted three spots later).

We’re talking this year.

I'm not putting any bets on Bryce being able to reach that ceiling. (yes, I meant to do that)

Statistically, by almost every possible metric measured, since he was drafted, he is the worst starter in the NFL over that stretch. It’s no debate. That’s facts. That’s numbers.

Oh, well, he has had 2 really good games vs Atlanta in his 3 year career. I have never denied those