grimesgoat

Anyone can change their mind if the price is right. Panthers should take the call and simply ask Houston to make an offer. If the offer makes the Panthers comfortable taking QB 1b, than accept the offer. Houston may just want peace of mind and are willing to pay for it. No mind games are necessary.

If its 55/45, then I'm probably sticking with my #1. But if its 51/49 then I'm saying "make me an offer". Texans may not want to guess who we like best or risk we pick their guy. If the cost is 33, then they may think the peace of mind is worth it. A nice wr may be sitting there at 33 that can grow with our new QB, and could help our new "2nd best" QB be even more successful.

Who says we would get the second best qb at 2? No two nfl team boards are alike. The fact that 50% like Young and 50% like Stroud is a solid clue. The panthers may have these guys ranked the same. Why not get a little extra compensation if available?

Dude - for some reason I can't stop laughing at this...

My point - Panthers have until May 1 to decide if they wish to pick up his 5th year option of 11m. Based on his work so far, I doubt they do so. That plus Jackson's 14m cap hit (vs. 10m in savings from a cut) means we may really need a cb sooner rather than later. They are not cheap on the open market.

I think the price tag for Jackson and Henderson will be too high in 2024. CB is a significant need. I would grab one no later than our first 4th.

I suspect they like both Young and Stroud. Question is, what do they like better...Young by himself or Stroud plus the #12 pick. That #12 pick could replace the #1 WR we just lost. Or maybe Houston gives their 2024 #1 as was rumored they offered Chicago. Even with Young, they are probably picking in the top 5 again. We could possibly snag Marvin Harrison next year with that high pick. Lots to think about.

#3 ranked QB by who? The talking heads? If they like 2 guys, I could see them moving back a spot for #34 from Houston. Chances are we get our favorite anyway (if we have a favorite) and pick up a good spot for a WR.

Cap only counts the top 51. Right now we are sitting on 51 guys. If we add 6 guys salary, we'll lose 6 guys salary. The math is pretty simple. It's always had an effect around 5-7m. Its a little higher this year with the first pick. Regardless, no need to spend up to the limit. Its nice to have some reserves for injuries and carry-over. We'll need it next year for burns, luvu, chinn, etc.

yep. and those six players will replace 6 players currently counting in the active 51. The guys they replace are all probably bottom of the roster guys making about 900k. 900k x 6 = 5.4m. 12.6m - 5.4m = 7.2m

I think you need to net it against guys that they will replace. probably closer to 7m for rookies.

We wouldn't be trading back to 9. We'd essentially be going from 9 to 2. It would cost 9, 61, 24st, 25 2nd, and DJ. In return we get 2 and 34. Not too bad. Let's say the 34th is equivalent to 61 and the 25 2nd. That means the #2 pick ended up costing us DJ and next year's first. Worth it.

Trading back makes perfect sense if you believe there are multiple QBs that can do the job. Why wouldn't you trade back one spot for an early 2nd or maybe even the 12th. This board is torn between Young and Stroud and you have a healthy number of folks that like Richardson best. Hell, there may even be a Levis guy on here. When all is said and done, one of these 4 will be the best QB and well over half of this board will have gotten it wrong. Trade back one slot with Houston and pick up 34. Chances are you still get your favorite QB plus a prime spot to grab a WR or TE.

I think the panthers mentioned they like AR and Stroud because they are signaling they are open for business. If Houston wants a certain guy, the panthers are saying make us an offer because we like two different guys. If you take one of our guys, we're ok taking the other. Not saying these are the only two guys we will consider - just that we like more than one of these guys so we would be open to trading back.

I believe we moved up to have control - not necessarily for a particular guy. I don't think we have figured that out yet, and still have lots of time to do so. If Richardson ends up being our favorite after due diligence, then I hope we can trade back a little.

If we really think both guys are good enough, then why not. Let Houston have their favorite. I think I’d rather have Young and Flowers or Johnston vs. just Stroud. And it is 50/50 I’d end up with Stroud and one of the wrs. We need more than a qb. We need wr, te, and a bunch of pieces on defense. Another early second would really help.

It would be hard to imagine anything less useful then a grade on a 1-year-old draft.

Verge- When I first saw Porter at 9 I sort of raged. But picking up Henderson's option in 2024 will cost 11m. And if Jackson is slowed by the achilles, we could save 10m by cutting him in 2024. Porter could be really important if those guys are no longer with us after 2023 year. Does a combo of Porter/Horn make sense in a 3-4?

I'd offer Carr 4 yrs at 130 m. 40m signing bonus up front with 65 guaranteed. In year 3, we can save 10m with a dead cap hit of 20m. Year 4 we can save 25m with a dead cap of 10m. This gives us a chance to develop Corral and Eason and continue to look for a younger option. We keep all draft capital to build around Carr. With a good defense, the core of which we already have, plus competent QB play, we can compete for championships over the next 4 years. Regardless of who they get at QB, I'll be on board. The competency level of this staff puts us in uncharted waters for this franchise. Year Salary Bonus Cap Hit Dead if Cut 2023 0 10 10 - 2024 25 10 35 55 2025 30 10 40 20 2026 35 10 45 10

Exactly. They have been bottom 5 in scoring defense for at least 6 years. You need some sort of balance. The idea Carr is a retread is so lazy. Carr is solid and should continue to play at a high level for at least 3-4 more years. Carr went 6-9 in his starts last year. 8 of the 9 losses were 1 score games. His defense was probably the worst in the league. Carr could be a really sneaky smart move, especially if he doesn't have to win every game single-handedly. Putting Carr on this team immediately makes us the favorite for the division and hosting playoff games for then next several years. Use #9 on a WR, then grab a TE in the second. Spend the rest on defense and let our new superstar coaches go to work.

Actually, I was thinking we had 1 2 2 3 4 4 5. Should have said we have an unusual number of fairly high picks - i.e. higher draft value/points. AR at 9 sounds good to me. As long as we grab help on the DL as well as a TE and Free Safety fairly high. There are 3 teams that pick right after us that are in need of OT. We might be able to slide back a few, pick up an extra 3rd, and still get our guy. Besides there is no way Fitterer doesn't trade back at some point to get some extra picks in the 6th/7th. Someone might fall and we should obtain some ammo somewhere along the line.

I think we need some perspective. It's not like 30 other teams have kyle shanahan clones and we are the only team with a shitty coaching tree. We've had our moments. We are average. We've always been average. Our winning percentage since 2000 is 17th in the league. But what is interesting to me is that we are 12th in the league in winning percentage against the spread (193 - 183 - 9). Just a bunch of overachievers. We've hit a rough patch. We have a new coach, a stud DC, and a boatload of draft picks. We're on our way. Let's enjoy.

Don't tell anyone this, especially Luvu, but he is severely underpaid. If your argument is we can significantly underpay someone else to play for us, then I say good luck with that. We are in good shape with LBs in a 3-4. Burns, Luvu, Shaq, Barno, Smith, Haynes, Chinn, and maybe Mosby. I am really high on Barno and Haynes in this configuration and hope they can get significant snaps. If Shaq's production flags in this new scheme, then we cut him next year and save 8m. I was wrong in my original post - the cap hits in 2024 and 2025 are 16m each, not 18m, which probably doesn't make a difference for you. I think what we need are more DL and a FS. I'd spend a 2nd on DL and our 3rd on a FS and hope they will be ready for heavy rotation by the time the season starts.

I think LBs are good with Burns, Barno, Haynes, Luvu, Shaq, Chinn, and Smith. Add Horn, Henderson, Jackson, STO, Taylor, and Woods into the mix and secondary looks ok. I like Brown and McCall but YGM is too small for the line and may be the odd man out. I like Mazie or Tuipolutu in the late second and a free safety in the third. I'd save our 1st and early second for the offense, Grab 2 of QB, WR, and TE.