AU-panther

I've said all along our biggest disadvantage is not being able to offer the Texans a QB option, unless they like Teddy, like the Jets and Dolphins can. Three way trade that sends Jimmy G would make sense. Maybe their GM thinks highly of him from their time together in NE. I think we would have to add a player or pick to Teddy for 49ers to do that though. I can't see them just trading Jimmy for Teddy straight up. They could just wait for us to cut him if they like him. maybe something like 49ers receive: Teddy B, Donte Texans receive: Jimmy G, 2 first rounders, 2 2nds, Shaq, Burns Panthers receive: DESHAUN YOU fuging KNOW IT WATSON

It’s pretty simple math. Nobody is saying it wouldn't be expensive, I’m just saying it’s feasible. Actually I don't think Voth said it was impossible you are just interpreting it that way.

At some point you need to learn to form your own opinion and just not blindly follow what you read from some reporter. I said we could afford to trade CMC and resign Samuel this year if we wanted. Didn't say we should, or financially long term it would be wise but I said it is feasible. That is a fact and not really debatable. Cap hit if CMC is traded is $17.2m according to Spotrac.com and overthecap.com. Christian McCaffrey Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap Christian McCaffrey Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac I think Voth said around $21m. Some of CMC's guaranteed money is in the form of guaranteed salary which is tradeable so that is probably why the two numbers are different. CMC's cap hit if not traded is about $12.5 million. If he is traded its $17.2m 17.2 - 12.5 = $4.7m If we trade CMC we lose $4.7m in cap space. Lets say Samuel has a first year cap cost of $6m. That would be a total $10.7m in extra cap space this year. We can afford that.

a lot of coach speak, watch the film. tell me schematically what they are actually doing different. We run often on first downs so they put 8 in the box often. If we ran a different RB a lot on early downs they would do the same. Who is covering him on third down if he runs a wheel route? Would it be different person covering him if it was different RB?

Voth is wrong. Most reporters have poor understanding of cap space.

I agree that most franchises don't want an expensive RB but my response was to the idea that we can't afford CMC's cap hit if traded and sign someone else. That is false, we can. Yes they probably would prefer younger players but I was trying to point out to people that a great player on a established deal is usually a better asset in a trade than a player about to get paid. For example if Dak and Watson were equal in ability Watson would be considered the better trade asset because part of his contract has already been paid. If you trade for Dak you have to sign him to the entire big deal. CMC at 8m a year isn't a horrible trade chip, I'm not saying he is Burns, but its not like the team is having to pay him 16m a year with $30m guaranteed. I'm not a huge big money RB guy but there are a few teams who still think that way. Actually for a team like Miami, if we try to trade to 3, I could see them liking CMC. Could make an argument he would be good for Tua. They were good last year and they have a lot of cap space. They might be ok with the contract. CMC seems to make more sense for a good team trying to get a little better than a rebuilding team.

I didn't say anything about Voth or if would happen. I was disagreeing with the statement that it wasn't feasible financially.

That is a bit of a stretch. How exactly are they changing their entire game plan because of McCaffrey? 8 men in the box? that is often a product of down and distance. Third and long and lines up in the slot, they cover him? They aren't going to cover a different back? Its not like teams are putting their #1 CB on him. Are they double teaming him in the passing game? Draft a RB in the third round and run him often on early downs and teams with focus on stopping him. Don't get me wrong, he is a really good player but this idea that he causes a huge fundamental change on how defenses play us is wrong.

Samuel won't be expensive in the first year of his contract, that just how much contract are written. If anything trading CMC and eating the dead money this year will free up future money when guys like Moton and/or Samuel get in their bigger years of their contracts, also if we were to trade for a really expensive QB.

They could make it work if it was needed to make a deal happen. Its about$17m if traded according to overthecap.com. Christian McCaffrey Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap Watson would only be around $10m. 10+17=doable Taking the RB worth argument out of it, some team might want a good player, who has already had their signing bonus paid, in return. In their mind it might offset some of the dead money on their books for their player they are trading. For them CMC would only average about $10.5m a year with almost zero guaranteed money. First two years would actually be closer to $8m a year. Great player on rookie deal > Great player on second deal where signing bonus is already paid > Great player who is expecting new deal

You can’t draw a conclusion from that list without also listing the QBs drafted after the 1st. As bad as those odds look the later rounds are even worse, not to mention you left out 2017 and later. Fact is good QBs are hard to find but they are exponentially easier to find in the first round.

It's not what you would be willing to give, its what they are willing to take. If I'm the Jets I'm asking for Burns.

You could make an argument for the eagle drafting or not drafting a QB. Hurts was a 2nd rounder so its not like they have a lot invested in him. He didn't play great overall, but he is a rookie so that is understandable. Flip side is if they do draft a QB in the first they are basically counting on either wasting last years 2nd or this years 1st. Maybe they saw enough to give Hurts another year, add some talent around him. Maybe a WR early. At this point I don't think anyone can say with certainty what they will d. Taking a QB, taking a non-QB, or trading down are all possilities.

You would have to most likely trade for Dak also. They can tag him.

Very possible we don’t like QB4 even if he falls to 8. Also very possible we aren’t willing to give up the farm to move up for QB3. Very possible that the team that can draft QB2 isn’t willing to trade out. Fact is the only thing we really control is that Teddy is under contract next year. Drafting or signing Watson, Wilson, Fields, or Lance are all dependent on other teams. It is possible though that we become more interested in some of the draft QBs the closer we get to the draft. If we strike out on vets or can’t trade up we might start talking ourselves into other options.

He is going 1st so you better whole-ass it. Unfortunately even then you can’t guarantee it in the NFL. Look at Miami two years ago and the Jets last year, tanking is hard, too much parity. Just another reason teams are usually willing to trade up for a QB.

Depending on what the cap is Jets could end up with close to $80m in cap space. That can go a long ways to filling a roster especially in an offseason that should be a buyers market. Also I just noticed those extra 1st are this year and next. Two 1st in the current year would be pretty strong. I do agree though that Miami can also offer a really good package of picks but if the Jets like QB2 a lot more that QB3 than the Jets have a huge advantage. Either way, both teams, if they decide to be aggressive could push the price way up for us. I could see us having to offer multiple players along with some picks.

I’m not saying what we should or shouldn’t do, just what I think it will take. Let me ask you this, take off your Panthers hat and pretend you are the Jets. What would you give up for Watson? Remember they have 5 1st round picks over the next 3 years and a tremendous amount of cap space to fill out a roster. Would you give up three 1st and two 2nds if you were them? I would

I get it. You have to have your number you won’t go past. I’m just saying I don’t think they would take your number. I personally don’t think I would offer much more myself.

Everyone is forgetting that other teams can make offers also. It isn’t as simple as making a good offer, you have to make a better offer than the other teams. Two 1st and Burns from us or Three 1st from the Jets? They probably take the Jets offer so the can grab QB2. They would probably take just 2 first from the Jets over our offer. Don’t underestimate the allure of being a ole to draft a potential franchise QB.

Those choices don’t happen in a vacuum though. Mike Davis might not be as good but he saves you around $10m that can be spent elsewhere. $15m RB and $2m LT or $2m RB and $15m LT? It is a lot easier to find a late round RB with good production than a OT or DE. Same in free agency.

Not saying you are right or wrong but they would probably turn your best offer down. The #2 overall from the Jets this year would probably be more appealing by itself. If we called the Jets ourself and offered that for their pick they probably wouldn’t take it.

I think Burns is one of best assets of any team out there that might be interested in Watson. People need to remember that all 1st aren’t created equal. Jets 1st is worth a lot more than our 1st, but our first is worth more than the first of someone like the WFT. Burns might get two mid round first on the open market but he wouldn’t get you the #2 overall pick. Jets and Dolphins have better picks to offer, we probably have better young players. Honestly I can’t see a team like the 49ers or WFT out bidding us.

Pick #3 might be the early favorite. I’m not positive the Texans will deal Watson and I’m even if they do I not sure if we can outbid the Jets, if the Jets want to be aggressive. I could actually see Miami being more interested in CMC than the Texans if he was part of a deal. Would be a nice weapon if they are trying to develop Tua.

How much we would have to give up would be dependent on what other teams were also offering. If the Jets want to be aggressive it would take an offer from us that most people here wouldn’t be comfortable with. I’m thinking three first, Burns and Chinn.