kungfoodude

I do feel like there is some positional bias to this scoring. I don't think it is as effective at gauging IDL/OL players versus QB's, WR's, etc. I like the PFR AV overall, though. They did retire the old CarAV and replace it with wAV.

Honestly, of his era, there haven't been many good players we have kept around. We are probably a couple of players away from him being the best player we have drafted and retained from 2015 and onward.

For this time period yes. The difference in the Tepper and non-Tepper eras of this sample seem very stark, IMO. I will add the caveat that the more recent picks are subject to very wide ranges of outcomes based on length and success of careers.

It would be basically impossible to do the other way around because wAV adds up over time. You essentially would be tilting the entire scale to longevity(which is somewhat true anyway). But, it is supposed to be a measure of career rating so that is appropriate.

Yeah you are definitely not understanding. These are ranked by individual draft class. 21st of the 2023 draft by wAV.

Trending down lately but that is also the most likely to change over time. For instance, a few more years and Shaq is likely to ascend much closer to #26 as a few guys ahead of him are out of the league.

From OP: Using PFR's weighted Approximate Value.

This was spawned by looking up how Shaq Thompson stacked up in the 2015 draft. Using PFR's weighted Approximate Value. 2023: Bryce Young, Drafted #1, Ranked #21 2022: Ikem Ekwonu, Drafted #6, Ranked #27 2021: Jaycee Horn, Drafted #8, Ranked #89 2020: Derrick Brown, Drafted #7, Ranked #17 2019: Brian Burns, Drafted #16, Ranked #16 2018: DJ Moore, Drafted #24, Ranked #11 2017: Christian McCaffery, Drafted #8, Ranked #4 2016: Vernon Butler, Drafted #30, Ranked #103 2015: Shaq Thompson, Drafted #25, Ranked #33 2014: Kelvin Benjamin, Drafted #28, Ranked #78

If you look up the 2015 Draft on Pro Football Reference and sort by Weighted AV, he would be(so far) the 33rd best player in the draft. So, basically very slightly less valuable than where he was drafted. That's probably about accurate. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/draft.htm

Speaking of underappreciated Panthers.

Yeah, this is a preseason/offseason take. We will see what the actuality of the situation is after the season is completed.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong too. I wish I didn't believe this either. As I have stated many times, I am at peace with how terrible we are now. I just want some evidence this season that we can change it and are changing it. It's an insanely low bar but that's basically where we are as a franchise.

We THINK we have upgraded at offensive playcalling. We HOPE that is the case. One week from now we finally get a chance to see if that might be the case.

Poo for effect. Excellent analysis.

Downgrade: DL, LB/EDGE, CB, KR/PR No change/Push: QB, RB, TE, S, K/P Upgrade(hopefully): OL, WR I would say our overall depth is worse than last season, as well. Obviously subjective/speculative and we will what happens.

Burns was just overplaying your hand. You bought low, didn't sell high but couldn't let it go waiting for peak value again.

Some of that depends on position and the ability to immediately be ready to go. 24+ year old projects are just foolish.

Same will be said of the younger players, TBH. This is the beginning of a long road to roster recovery.

I think that is a TBD. We aren't that removed from the "in on every deal" era which was the most roster mismanaged era in franchise history. COULD we have turned the corner? Sure. But, this is also basically the same crew that has us where we are now in terms of the NFL's least talented roster. We will see what happens. Never count any chickens as a Panthers fan.

There is just no world in which I am gonna agree that we aren't worse. Now, this is a sinking versus floating turds argument ultimately.

If you just walk down the roster, if becomes clear that this is a worse roster than last year. But, some of that was just going to be the case. I am not saying it in a doom and gloom manner but factually. If our offseason moves turn out to be mostly above average and we look like we have competent coaching, then there is plenty of hope for the future no matter how many losses pile up this season.

This is a common and extremely unfounded fear by our fans. The PS to "stud" list contains so few players over the past 30 years that most of us can probably list the few cases. Coker is exactly what he has shown, a PS to borderline fringe roster guy. Noteable as this is currently the worst roster in the NFL. I was not surprised that most of the peiole we cut didn't get claimed. That isn't accidental.

This has literally been Brady so far, oddly enough.

Again, please don't do that. We literally don't know the result of this yet. He got handed a turd(same thing was said about early Fitterer) but ultimately this is leaps and bounds away the worst roster we have ever fielded. That has to improve over the course of the season and in 2025 for me to "trust the process."