KSpan

It is entirely possible to discuss a player's perceived value relative to makret without automatically leaping to the conclusion that someone is also condoning "having zero pass rush". The stupid that needs to be fixed in this thread, ones like it, and in a lot of discussions outside of here isn't what you seem to think it is.

Zero people have said that Burns should take less or should not get as much as he can. That is an entirely separate thing from people discussing the potential value of his skillset relative to the league. You have lost the plot a bit here.

If a thread is active for multiple days and someone participates in the entire conversation with an opposing viewpoint, especially if they are actively being engaged by others over that time, that's not 'hating'. It's already been summed up quite well.

You own post: "A hater isn't a useless word, it's trendy, or another way of saying cynic or a doubter. Some who has a strong dislike towards someone or something. And I think you should admit that, at least, you don't believe in burns as a long term option." At no point have I ever said I dislike Burns or "don't believe in him as a long term option", though I'm not sure what that second part ever really means. It is entirely possible to think that the trade would yield more value than Bruns does himself while still also recognizing that Burns is a pretty good player overall, which is exactly what I and others have said. There is no hate/cynicism/insert dramatic term here, just an assessment on what may have yielded even better long-term value to th team than he himself as a player does. Nothing derogatroy or disbelieving about it.

This is a key point that seems to get lost in the discussion. It wasn't just about "2 picks", ignoring that many forget about the very high 2nd rounder we would've had this year as well, it was that there is a strong likelihood those picks end up pretty high in the draft. Of course 2 picks at the bottom of the 1st round aren't as valuable as 2 at the top. What's done is done though and hopefully Burns can round out his game and take a big step this year.

Defense of the word 'hater' followed by a claim of 'strong dislike' when literally no one has said they don't like Burns... you're already showing your own bias. Other posts including some of my own have already addressed all of this.

Truly innovative defensive strategies right there.

Yup, because the primary goal is to be included on random esoteric lists and have players get 'national attention' in July. That's what it's all about. In all seirousness though who has complained about him being included on a list specifcally naming top edge rushers? Looks like most everyone agrees he's pretty good at that skillset, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Defending the run is a pretty important thing for an every-down player; TE pass protection is way down the list in terms of positional importance in today's NFL. Using Olsen, or any player of that mold, as a pass blocker is a complete waste, while Bruns could have to defend the run on any given down and in run-first situations. Greg was also a poor run blocker, but that was of minimal importance to his role with Carolina using Tolbert (who was equally useless as a blocker at the end of his time here), Hartsock, Brockel, Mahertz, etc throughout his tenure to be the blocker. Much harder to hide an every-down defender like that.

What's quaint is this assertion of disrespect/fans don't appreciate/'insert similar comment here' present in a given fanbase, as if there aren't differing opinions across every team in the sports world. I live here in KC, arguably the top of the NFL for several years now, and there are people complaining about the fanbase. Hell, even certain players were whining about it in recent years. The whole 'fanbase doesn't appreciate...' take is incredibly stale and unoriginal. Yup, there are hordes of people claiming Burns sucks. You're right on the money... And speaking of stale, 'hater' is about the most meaningless word out there these days.

This is a stale take - few "undervalue" Burns as an edge rusher, if anyone at all. Little question that the dude is high quality in that respect. The flip side is more that he's one-dimensional and going to cost a ton. With a trade package on the table like the Rams offered, which placed a pretty dang high value on Burns, it presented the opportunity to spread that value around (since the Rams suck) and gain a big chunk of salary cap relief in the process, a key component to success in modern NFL. Having that trade be successful isn't/wasn't reliant on being 100% sure that one of those picks turned into another Burns like is often framed, but rather that the value locked up in his position could be disbursed across multiple positions with good odds of turning a number of weaknesses on a growing team into strengths. That said, what's done is done and he will hopefully develop into a true all-around monster this year. However, the potential of that trade that didn't happen can and will be discussed all the way until that final pick passes in 2025.

Denver had been running a base 3-4 for years under Fangio, who is no defensive slouch himself and whose defenses finished 10, 25, and 3 in pts allowed since 2019. This is an entirely different situation schematically, let alone the personnel aspect, with Evero having retained a lot of the prior defense when he took over. "We’ll be 3-4 in our base defense,” Evero confirmed during his introductory press conference on Tuesday. “We’ll play a variety of sub packages. There will be a lot of carryover from what these guys did last year …. I think the players will be familiar with a lot of what we’re going to present to them. We’re going to always start players first and then move into the scheme.” https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/24/denver-broncos-ejiro-evero-will-keep-vic-fangio-3-4-defense/ There will absolutely be growing pains this year.

Hey now, I've been told that if you don't share those playoff expectations you're not a fan and must be miserable. Takes like yours may be a cry for help. I hope everything is OK over there... All sarcasm aside, agreed. Huge amount of change on the team and it can still be a very positive season without playoffs or even a winning record.

Same, but I have 2, a black and a white. I also have Rae Carruth"s gane-worn glove framed with my signed Lathon jersey and Sam Mills-signed hat. I got it pre-murder and just never taken the framing apart.

Jeffers actually put up stats though.

The second coming of Taye Biddle.

Playmaking as defined by whom?

Sounds right for the moment and not an unreasonable list overall, though Sean Payton is wayyy too high and Zac Taylor too low.

Point being that he was not attracting more.attemtion, either by the QB, by game plan design, or otherwise. The offense didn't pay attention to him and as such defenses didn't either, which he turned into some downfield catches. Could he turn into more this season? Sure, but Juju (named by someone else in this thread) is an example of a complementary #2 receiver and TMJ is not there on the field yet.

TMJ has 3 targets or fewer in the vast majority of his games - he is a #3 with upside at best at the moment. Mingo is definitely not a #2 - he a rookie and could contribute something or could do nothing this year. Hopefully Young can help elevate everyone but Chark really needs to stay healthy this year.

To be fair to Cam, the shoulder injury was a fluky thing that could happen to anyone in the NFL. Had nothing to do with his play style outside of him giving 100% effort. Without that, Cam would likely still be in the league. Is what it is though and yeah, Bryce's career could be longer.

Weakness I see is that Woods is the closest thing we have to a true FS, but even then he's more of a hybrid type. Bell is a solid player but definitely an SS, and Chinn and Woods are already both SS types. IMO they really need a true FS type to round out that secondary, and it's been a historical problem for Carolina, where the safeties have always been average or worst. There's Minter, then Deon Grant, then maybe Charles Godfrey, then a bunch of one-year wonders, then nothing. That's a sorry positional history for a 30 yr old team.

I love stuff like this, and I think it's great to show kids/young athletes the grind side and just what it takes to be at that level. Not that everyone is an athlete but that the hard work is required to achieve the success they want. I also recognize that pumpkin patch Mahomes and family was at. It's a fun one.

Can he play the run too?