Seltzer

I honestly thought Linville Gorge was a good guy, but more importantly, had great input and contributed a lot until this recent nonsense. Just complete toxicity if you don't agree with what he thinks the groupthink should be... I'm not sure if the abyss the franchise is in is the cause or what, but it is glaring what both he and unfortunately this board has devolved into...

LOL of all the things you could have taken away. Here's some actual objective evidence, and it surely doesn't back the hit job you are your minions want to project... Regardless, for what it's worth, you won. I'll take my next sabbatical from this (unfortunately) toxic place. Hope you and your squad enjoy controlling this entire place... might as well put up a banner... "only moderator-approved groupthink allowed!!"

Dude I get you want to be a contrarian and run everyone off this board but your buddies, but this isn't the flex you think it is.

You realize both those things can easily be true, right? 1) BY9 was the consensus #1 QB prospect 2) Not every single team or scout had BY9 rated #1 Like someone said, and I'm legitimately not trying to be mean or snarky, but you know what consensus means, right? It doesn't mean that it was "unanimous" in that every single scout, etc. thought BY9 was the #1 QB prospect, but it does mean that an overwhelming majority of them (Panthers included) thought that way. And I will say, anyone saying anything like this (I would have taken X over X) after the fact is suspect as hell, and it doesn't even mean anything as a practical matter. BY9 was objectively and unequivocally the consensus-rated #1 prospect. I know we live in a world where people feel entitled to create their own facts, but you only need to go back a few months to valid this fact as being true. I'm sure there are plenty of people claiming now they had Stroud ranked ahead (and they may have although again BY9 was overwhelmingly the favorite by almost every publication and media outlet so I would take that with a grain of salt).

You cannot throw deep if you don't have time and guys don't get open. It's simple physics. Doesn't matter if your name is Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Cam Newton, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, or Tom Brady. There should not be anything controversial or hard to understand about that. The literal only thing the metrics show about Bryce is that he has been incredibly accurate when guys have been open. There is no other legitimate, football-based observation you can even make under this level of dysfunction. He is playing behind the #31 ranked offensive line and the #32 ranked receivers. I'm not trying to be mean, but so much of this discussion has no basis in reality. All this theoretical nonsense about Stroud vs. Young is nothing more than hot-take nonsense at this point. Would it be accurate to say Bryce is superior b/c he won the head-to-head matchup? And looked markedly better? Of course not, but so much of this other "analysis" is absolute nonsense either. I genuinely question the mental acuity of people making these sweeping pronouncements after 10 games as if they have definitely answered anything. I'm hoping we can actually start legitimately evaluating Bryce now that Reich is gone, hopefully we will have someone actually interested in implementing an offense catered to the players instead of whatever Reich's offensive abomination was. There is literally nothing to take from the Reich Era other than it was a massive mistake. And as mad as I am with Tepper's mismanagement of the team, he was right to rip this bandaid off. Reich looked like he had never coached in his life. He was obviously not ready to come back coaching. Finding someone who can actually maximize BY9's ability is what we need. Whatever this was offensively for the 1st 11 weeks, I don't know, but I just want to flush it and move on. Are y'all really ready to give up on Bryce after 10 games under the absolute worse conditions I could imagine? Because if so, please, and I mean this in all seriousness, find another team and QB you think is worthy of cheering for. Go fanboy for CJ Stroud. He has undoubtedly been very good as a rookie, but I know 2 things, and the film backs this up 10000%: 1) He has looked way worse under pressure than BY9 2) He faces far, far less pressure than BY9 and has an exponentially better supporting cast CJ Stroud being successful doesn't change the fact Bryce can/will also be once this dysfunction isn't suffocating him. B/c I know damn well Bryce will produce when/if he provided with even the bare requisite around him. This is the nadir for the Panthers franchise. Now really is the time to depart, and no one will know. In all seriousness, just now. But shoot me now if this place is just going to be nonsensical BY9 bashing... I lived through that for 2.5 years with Cam from 2011- 1st half 2013, and that was with teams with actual talent like Smitty, Olsen, D-Will & J-Stew plus Luke and a badass front 7 on defense. Winning is the ultimate deodorant, and we haven't done that in 6 years and counting. That is the biggest issue, along with the meddling owner who is the one constant. Blaming Bryce IMHO is the literal laziest thing a Panthers fan can do, when he is literally the least responsible for this cascade of ineptitude and failure that has defined this franchise since 2018.

It's a shame that legit voices with something to offer like yours will inevitably be drowned out by the ceaseless trolling that seems to animate this place these days.

Maybe the Chargers move there, but Jerry Jones has made it abundantly clear that he's not going to allow another NFL team in Texas to "dilute the market" or do anything to pull braindead fans away from "America's Team." IMHO, I was legitimately worried when JJR met with the LA mayor back in 2016. Moving to LA was a possibility, especially with JJR's health at the time, lack of a succession plan, and the beginning whispers of workplace impropriety. But ever since the Rams & Chargers moved to LA, there is no other viable market for the Panthers to ever move, and given the growth of Charlotte and the Carolinas, there is 0% chance the NFL is going to willingly forego a market of ~16M people in the Carolinas (the combined population of NC & SC would make it the 5th largest state). Talking of moving the Panthers is fearmongering without any logic behind it at this point. Tepper is stuck with the team here, and we are stuck with Tepper. He's not going to sell, and there is no logical or viable market that any rational person would deem better than here. All we can hope is that better decisions are made.

If you had ever been to a Charges game you would know how incredibly laughable this was. I sat front row in 2008 (when the Chargers were considered a preseason SB contender) for under $100. Granted, this was 15 years ago, but still, it was Week 1. Ended up being an all-time game (Delhomme last second pass to Rosario), but anyone who thinks San Diego would be a better NFL market than Charlotte/Carolinas is misguided. They barely cared at all when they had a team that was winning 10+ games every year. LA doesn't care about the Chargers, either. The only reason they ended up in LA was b/c the San Diego stadium was an abomination and Kronke wanted help to pay for his stadium. To me, moving the Charges would be the most likely move of any franchise in the short-to-intermediate-term.

It is nice to see I'm not the only "old-timer" that sees this. I guess it's par for the course, but literally everything about the Panthers now for the most part just evokes sadness for those of us who can remember it being better, including this place. I will check out the discord- thank you for the suggestion!

This is what I hope the Panthers organization really understands. This is not just shedding casual fans. That process has already been completed from 2018-2022. This is now a hemorrhaging of legit fans (i.e. PSL owners, etc.) who were the backbone of this fanbase both in terms of fan support but also financial support. Apathy is a cancer for sports franchises, and this cancerous tumor of apathy has been metastasizing for 6+ years now throughout the Panthers fanbase.... I'm not saying this to be alarmist or pessimistic b/c that's not me, but this ain't an easy fix on-the-field or off-the-field at this point. Richardson said in 2001 when he fired Siefert that the "energy has been sucked from this franchise." That looks like a quaint bump-in-the-road compared to the straight abyss this franchise is currently wallowing around in... there is no quick or easy fix...

There is literally no other franchise, even the Bears, that would have had this dsyfunctional of an offense in place, I'm convinced. It's never been this bad in Panthers history, even under Rhule or Seifert

I'm all about realism. A lot of this is just unmitigated trolling for trolling sake. I'm cancelling my PSL's after 18 years. I've invested plenty in this organization over the years and I'm fed up too. I just also have watched a lot of football and know Bryce isn't nowhere as bad as these trolls want to make out. I completely understand not blowing sunshine, but I also have zero patience with people who want to do nothing but constantly sh*t on things when they don't know what they're talking about. You want to critique how this is the worst interior offensive line in franchise (and potentially NFL history) by the metrics? No argument here You want to critique how godawful this receiving group is? No pushback there You want to critique how pathetic this scheme & playcalling is? Perfectly legit You want to critique the one constant behind this failure in David Tepper? I 10000% concur You want to critique how Bryce's footwork has gotten off after being under constant pressure or he hasn't done enough to look guys off (which is a lot harder to do when you have no confidence your guys are getting open for anyone that's ever played)? The film shows that. You want to call Bryce a bust or not understand all the really good things he is doing in spite of the most dysfunctional offense I've ever seen? Kiss my ass And trust me, I had to defend Cam from 2011-2013 on this very board, too. There is not one single person you will ever be able to point to who actually knows football who will tell you anything other than BY9 was the top-rated college QB for a reason, and that it's impossible to evaluate any QB under these conditions. And that's simply not good enough for all the armchair GM's, hot-take artists, and trolls that have overwhelmed this place, but it's the truth. That isn't "coping" or any of the other bullsh*t these trolls simp on about. It's about actual evaluation and not worthless hysteria.

Find something else to do while the adults are trying to have a conversation. You are a pathetic troll who is lucky to hide behind a keyboard. For real, I don't have anything else to discuss with you one way or the other. Be gone. @Moderators- Is this seriously the board you want to run here??... Nothing but unmitigated trolling... seriously WTF happened to this place??

Point to one example where Bryce had an even remotely clean pocket and wasn't able to make the throw? Seriously, show me one example. People are just making sh*t up at this point. There is a litany of film showing Bryce slinging the ball 50 yards. There is some Alfred Hitchcock level gaslighting going on in here... jesus christ

When did Cam carry this team the 1st two seasons? Some of y'all either have revisionist history or can't remember. Cause there was a constant drumbeat of Cam haters and doubters from Day 1. Half this freaking board wanted Cam gone before we went on that winning streak in 2013.

True statement. Just like the team, I hope this place can turn around. It used to be fun. Now it is an un-moderated hellscape with literal clowns running wild. Just like the organization, maybe we need a hard reset with a new message board, too. I don't know. I love ya Jeremy, but this has devolved a long, long way from where it started with carolinagrowl. This board has been bastardized by the social media mentality like everything else. 15 years ago people could have somewhat legitimate discourse. Now it's just nonsense and sh*t talking that rarely if ever serves a purpose. Or maybe I'm just getting older. But trying to have a reasonable conversation on here vs even 5 years ago is night & day. It's mostly a lost cause.

Yeah Eff off keyboard warrior. I was here long before you were. You can have this place. You are the perfect representation of this franchise right now. Clowns running the organization, clowns running the message board... Your 2023 Carolina Panthers!!

There's not even legitimate discourse here anymore. Jeremy has abandoned the place (I don't blame him). Moderators are useless or are actively part of the cesspool. Basically, a reflection of the franchise. This was such a good place for a long time, too. RIP Carolina Huddle

He's accomplished more in his life already than you probably ever will... Clown avatar is fitting... Has our fanbase always been full of awful people like this? godalmighty...

Fine. You win. Enjoy watching him thrive when he finally leaves for a competent franchise. Just like everyone else. Make fun of those of us actually taking up for the most competent part of our offense. This place has become as miserable as BOA on game day... I'm guessing you'll be happy when you've ran all the fans off just like Tepper...

True to a certain extent. Even Prime Cam couldn't fix this level of dysfunction. Cam had jabronis at WR a lot, and a lot of bad Olineman, but never, ever in conjunction was it ever this bad. This is honestly one of if not the worst situations a rookie QB has ever been put in. And we were told as a franchise that wasn't going to be the case. You think Bryce's family likes watching him get plastered every week? I guarantee you this is not how they thought this was going to go, either. No QB that has ever lived is turning this chicken sh*t into chicken salad. I don't even know how to reason with someone who can't comprehend that.

Did everyone here watch the game yesterday? Maybe I'm just old and need to stop watching but jesus christ where are some of these comments coming from? BY9 didn't forget how to play football. He made several crazy throws yesterday to guys with literally no separation and fit the ball in. When guys were actually open at the top of his drop, he hit them perfectly. I've watched Stroud, and there is absolutely nothing he is doing that Bryce couldn't or wouldn't given time. Maybe it's just the overall dysfunction of this franchise over the past 6 years, but I am astounded people are blaming Bryce. I've watched a lot of bad, bad QB play in Carolina. BY9 is not a bad QB. He is a good QB playing on one of the most dysfunctional and inane offenses in NFL history. He has to be perfect to even attempt to overcome the incredibly dumb penalties and awful personnel. Like a lot of PSL owners, I'm done after this season. Trading up for Bryce was 100% a mistake, but it would have been 100% a mistake trading up for any QB with this roster. Anyone saying otherwise is stupid or hasn't watched us play. CJ Stroud isn't elevating this roster. Prime Cam Newton isn't elevating this roster. Patrick effing Mahomes ain't cooking with these misfits. Sorry, but only a delusional person would think otherwise. Watching people crap on Bryce (after crapping on DJ & CMC & Cam) honestly just makes me want to see him go somewhere else and thrive like everyone else (as long as it's not in the NFC South). These players honestly deserve better, too. Reading dumb stuff like this just makes me want to stop watching the NFL period. We used to be a somewhat proud franchise. Now we're blaming a 22-year old rookie for not saving this franchise for the accumulation of 6 years of bad decisions. Poverty franchise from the top all the way down, unfortunately...

I try to avoid this place most days, and this thread is yet another reminder... This fanbase deserves the inevitable with all these comments... Yep, it's absolutely Bryce's fault, he's holding us back... I just can't... I've been to almost every Panthers home game over the past 18 years. Bryce is a good QB in an impossible situation. If I'm BY9's agent or parents, I am trying to get him as far away from this dysfunction as fast as possible. I watched every single Panthers home game in 2011. Rookie Cam had Smitty, Olsen, Shockey, D-Will, & J-Stew along with an offensive line that still had Jordan Gross and Ryan Kalil. And people still thought Cam didn't "elevate" that team enough. Do you honestly think rookie Cam is doing any better with this cast? More rushing yards maybe, but definitely no more productive in the air. Absolutely no QB ever is producing with immediate interior pressure almost every snap. What happened to Mahomes in the Bucs SB? Same thing. Most franchises would sit a rookie in this situation to protect him from an impossible situation, but we gave up too much and misjudged our situation too much to go back now. This is unequivocally the worst offensive line in franchise history. One on the worst interiors in league history in terms of pressure %. And yet the reality-free commentary flows... I guarantee you no one on this board wants BY9 gone more than those people who actually care about him. This situation is honestly even worse than Urban Meyer & Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville. Nick Saban, Bill O'Brien, and a litany of former coaches & players know how good BY9 is. But this fanbase seems hellbent on running Bryce off just like everyone else. When Belichick or someone else snaps up BY9 after we foolishly let him go and he turns into Brees 2.0 with a competent franchise, I hope our fanbase is content. B/c just like CMC, DJ Moore, and Baker Mayfield, I would bet every dollar I own the problem is not the players but this franchise. It's all just depressing & humiliating. And I understand the desire to blame someone. And you can blame whoever you want, whether it's reality-based or not. But as someone who has been around since the carolinagrowl days and has seen almost every snap in this franchises' history, the poverty-mindset of blaming Bryce (just like we did DJ & CMC & Cam before him) keeps the attention off of where it really lies, with David Tepper. I know it's hard when we've been down this long, but please let's make some reality-based arguments and blame the people actually responsible for this mess.

Appreciate the advice and reassurance. And I hope some dumb Cowboys fan gives me his mortgage payment. It's just so depressing to be in this same situation year after year

Where do you normally sell them? Just post them on Ticketmaster for resale?