tukafan21

C'mon T-Mac, that one was bad

Yep, but I was bashed for calling that out last week just because we had a 200 yard rusher and won the game in spite of his play calling. I was okay with T-Mac not getting targeted on that drive as he had the cowboys on their heels. But then to get that close to the red zone and have those last 2 play calls which were terrible instead of at least just throwing him a jump ball, just ridiculous How do we have a red zone weapon like T-Mac but continue to flat out REFUSE to look his way once we get into the red zone?!?!?! If you're going to call red zone passing plays, it's usually a good idea to target your 6'5" #1 WR

3rd and 2 and we run it?!?! I was so close to saying this was one of Canales' best called drives of the season so far too, but wow, what a way to ruin it at the end

So you're saying you'd still go back and take the inferior talents, just because you think they fit with Bryce better, a player who is more likely than not, to no longer be a Panther next year? That's just crazy to say, wanting to have a worse player because you think they fit better with your awful QB is just dumb. You take the best players, if your existing players then aren't good enough, you replace them later. It's crazy that there are still people with this take after they've seen what T-Mac can do for us in just 5 games so far.

Exactly, I can't see anyway this guy is effective for more than a season or two, he's going to end up a very oft injured player. Not counting Derrick Henry, who was the last RB to have such a physical style that has held up for more than a year or two?

I said this before that trade, but those trades in general just never work out, usually because if the team at #1 is wiling to trade the pick, it means the QB options that year just aren't that great to begin with. That we then took Bryce just compounded the issue

well okay, sure, that changes the equation a bit then, pass revoked

I mean, MAYBE as our beat reporter he should have known that story, but even as big of a fan of the team as I am, somehow this is the first time I've heard about this. Newton is absolutely terrible, but I think I have to give him a pass on this one if I didn't even know about it.

His rookie year 100% Last year not quite as much because we invested so much on the OL and they were greatly improved. This year, only because of injuries and XL's regression is it remotely true, but there is a halfway decent chance that moving forward the rest of the season it won't be an excuse for him anymore. T-Mac is a clear cut #1 WR already. Coker coming back, Horn finally getting to play, a 2nd RB in the mix, and if even a return to last year's XL would provide Bryce with plenty of weapons to where he shouldn't look like one of the worst busts ever anymore.

Not just a QB on a rookie contract, but two 1st round WRs on it as well. I can't see how anyone can say we haven't properly invested in an offensive supporting case for Bryce. We tried to trade or sign for an established #1 WR and couldn't, so we did the next best thing in drafting them back to back years in the first. We have 2 RBs, so no need to go out and spend more big money there. That really only leaves the OL, which we've properly invested in as we have a solidified RT, new Guards, and a LT also still on a rookie contract. Complain we haven't brought in a better Center yet, but saying we haven't properly spent to support Bryce is nonsense.

It's not about calling a perfect game, it's about not calling a terrible one, something Canales has basically done in every game he's been our coach (there may have been a couple good ones scattered in there last year, but it hasn't been this year). And the timing isn't new, I've said it after every game because it's been crap from the start, so not like I just jumped on it after a win. The point of the thread was really just to not see the 200 yard rushing game and think the coaching staff all of a sudden figured poo out. It was a Rico effort, not a coaching staff gameplan, 169 of his yards were after contact. But everyone just took it as "oh you're just upset T-Mac isn't getting 25 catches a game and 19 TDs so far"

You won't believe this, but neither with the information at hand Nobody wants to believe me, but this thread and my issues with the team have absolutely nothing to do with T-Mac. Do I wish he had more targets or some TD's already? Of course, but he's 15th in the league in yards and on pace for 1,200 as a rookie, 2nd in the league in 20+ yard catches, 5th in the league in 1st down catches. He's on pace to shatter Panthers rookie records and could potentially end up in contention for a Pro Bowl slot depending how the season shakes out. This thread was about our piss poor offensive play calling, as we're never going to be able to properly develop any of our young offensive weapons this year with how that's been going. If we're having the same issues as always, then yea, I'm puling for option 1 for my guy, because what really matters isn't changing. But if you tell me we had a great pass/run mix, keeping the defense off balance, getting chunk yards on a consistent basis, XL, Horn, Coker, Sanders, Evans, etc, make plays that show they're improving. Then yes, I'll take option B with T-Mac taking a backseat when that other stuff happens, because it's what is best for the future of this franchise. This season isn't just about T-Mac, it's about improving ALL of our young weapons, but that won't happen with the way Canales has been calling games (and with how Bryce has played). And again, I'm not going to try and dig out months old posts, but I said this all offseason. That actual standings wins and loses don't matter to me this year because I never believed we could be contenders. Showing growth and improvement from the front office, to the coaches, to the players, was most important.

There is no easy way to "measure" it like you ask, it's not scientific of course, but it's almost easiest to judge it by your frustration levels throughout the game at what is going on. In terms of player performance, it's things like how often you see Bryce throwing uncatchable passes, whether sailing them or because they are thrown into the ground. For WRs, it's are they making catches, are they dropping it, just how they look out there, etc. But for me, the big thing this thread was about, was specifically play calling and not to think we had a great called game just because we won and Rico had 200+ yards. How many times did we line up on 1st and 10 and say to yourself, "welp, here comes another run for 2 yards" and then that's exactly what happened? Or say a 3rd and 8 on our own 30 and you say, "here comes a screen pass that will only get 5 yards" and then that's exactly what happens? Canales' play calling seems very predictable, stale, and with little imagination in play design (and many others have felt this same way since last year too). To me, that is the big reason this game was a "bad win" because it's not like we did anything differently that made us appear to be a better team. It's why I say the 200+ yard game is because Rico made great plays, not because Canales called a great game that kept the defense on their heels and it allowed consistent 5-8 yard chunk runs throughout the game. To that last point, I just saw that of his 206 yards, 169 of them were after contact. Yet again, more proof that he didn't get his 200 yards because of a well called game by Canales, but by great individual efforts by him (it also pokes the hole in the argument someone made yesterday that said our OL was dominating theirs, as clearly it wasn't based on that stat). If we come out this week and have unexpected play calling that keeps getting us chunk yards because the Cowboys don't know what is coming next, I'll be the first to congratulate Canales on a well planned and called game that showed marked improvement, regardless of whether or not we won or lost the game.

Figured given my other thread, it would just be funny if I started this one. But Rico was just given this week's Angry Runs on GMFB

What?!?!?! Yes it absolutely is, you're never going to get to contention if you never improve. Winning 5-6 games a year because the other team was worse (not because you were better) does you no good in becoming a contending team, but improving as a coaching staff and as players 100% helps move the needle towards reaching a contending status. I used this example all offseason, but just look back at the Lions like 5 years ago. They kept losing, but were showing improvement in doing so, they went from I think (not looking it up) a 3 win team, to a 6 or 7 win team, to playing in the NFC Championship game in a span of 3 years. They did it because in those 3 and 6/7 win seasons, they were showing improvement even in their losses, they weren't squeaking by in their wins while still looking terrible in key areas of the game. THAT is what I'm asking for and why I'd rather see improvement over ugly wins, they are the literal example of what I'm looking for and now they're a true SB contender after picking 2nd in the 2022 draft. And beyond all of that, your example of "we'd have won the SB right now" is also just nonsense that proves my point. Because we haven't improved for years despite winning a handful of games each year because the other team was worse than we were. So why haven't we actually gotten better in all that time yet when we've been winning games ugly instead of losing games while showing improvement? You're literally proving yourself wrong with this post.

That's fair, but I've also never said you can't enjoy a win, there is a big difference between enjoying a win and sticking your head in the sand about our issues, which is what so many who are "just enjoying the win because of how bad we've been lately" are doing. You can enjoy a win while also seeing the realities, and if you're a fan who can just enjoy those wins, more power to you. But I'd prefer to see improvement over bad wins, and sure, I'd rather see wins and improvement in the same game, but if that's not an option, give me improvement in a loss over frustration in a win. I genuinely don't understand why that's a controversial take, as I'm literally rooting for the thing that will help us contend faster, even if that won't be very fast.

The irony here is interesting You say the change won't happen overnight, so you're good with enjoying the wins despite not showing actual improvement. You're right, it's not going to change overnight, which is why so many of us are rooting for seeing improvement right now over bad wins right now, because you have to start somewhere if you ever hope to improve. Winning ugly doesn't help us in the future, but showing improvement would

Being happy about a win isn't giving up on them, but when people say things like, "we should just be happy after a win given how bad we've been the last 10 years", that's being happy regardless of how we looked because we don't get a lot of wins, which is straight up loser mentality. And that's my point, 95% of the people happy about this win are also saying those kind of things. I'm not upset that we won, I'm upset that we still didn't look good in key areas, namely play calling, if you can't see the difference between those things, then that's a you problem, not a me problem. This win does NOTHING for us into the future, which is why it's hard for me to get exited over a win against another horrible team where we still didn't look good outside of a few big runs by Rico. Trust me, if we turned some corner and looked great with Canales calling a great game to keep the Dolphins guessing wrong all day, then yea, I'd be on here celebrating it up, but that's not close to what happened.

But this is my exact point, aren't you sick of just being happy over a win because we get them so infrequently? Don't you want to finally start to be competitive every week and be in the playoff hunt again? If just getting a win makes you happy, then I feel bad for you, because it means you've completely given up on the franchise ever being decent again and you're good with a handful of wins each year. When the season is over and we go 6-11 again, do you really still feel all good and fuzzy inside because of those few wins we got because the other team poo the bed worse than we did that week? Do those bad wins really then help you get excited for the next season? I said this exact same stuff before the season even stared, that I didn't care if we won or lost games this year as long as we showed marked improvement in a variety of areas. Because doing THAT would be what helps move us towards being a competitive franchise again, not seeking out wins while we still show the same problems that have plagued us for years, such as poor play calling. And that's VERY different than what you said in that first post, about "preferring to lose", as of course I'd rather also win those games as that shows even more improvement. But if you're going to put two options in front of me, win a game we show the same problems or lose a game where we show marked improvement, I'm taking the loss there every time because the improvement is a better sign for the long term outlook for the franchise that showing the same problems yet again.

They're pretty far off, double T-Mac's stats to get to the same targets as XL and it would be 4 drops to 7. A 3 drop difference might not sound like a lot, but it's still almost twice as many drops on the same number of targets. Not to mention, if I remember correctly, XL's drop problems last year seemed more down field, where he was dropping passes he should be making and it was clear his poor hands were there reason he dropped them. And weren't both of T-Mac's drops this year on quick hitters with blockers out in front of him? I know at least the second one was as he was going to go for a huge play and maybe a TD on it. To me, and yes, I'd say this about any other player, those are drops because a rookie was trying to do too much in making a play before securing the catch. Much easier to improve upon a lapse in concentration than dropping passes because you have bricks for hands and body catch more often than hands catch, like with XL. And yes, 100%, which is why I wasn't one of those people you were referring to with talking about him that way last year. Yes, I said he had drop problems., because he did, but I didn't think they were unsolvable and expected to see great improvement this year after an offseason of hitting the juggs machine (unfortunately not sure that happened though).

I mean, he was tied for 13th in the league in drops with 7 despite only having only 84 targets while having 49 rec for 497 yards, with 7 catches of 20+ yards and 27 1st Downs in 16 games. T-Mac has 2 drops this year on 43 targets while having 24 rec for 351 yards, 9 catches of 20+ yards and 19 1st Downs in only 5 games. So in only 1 target more than half the targets, he has less than 1/3rd of the drops, while being half a catch shy of half his catches, already 70% of the yards, 2 more catches of 20+ yards, and 70% of the 1st Downs in 11 less games. Again, trying to compare T-Mac's hands or any WR ability other than speed to XL is just completely insane.

Has a single pass to T-Mac resulted in a fumble or INT? I don't think so. And yes, he has a couple drops, but that's it, it's only 2 actual drops so far. Too many idiot fans chalking up non catches to drops, just because they know how absurd of catches he is capable of making already. Be frustrated he couldn't make a difficult catch, that's fair, but stop calling them drops or like the above post, trying to insinuate his hands are remotely in the same realm as XL, just lunacy. And no, I'll never say we're improving based solely on T-Mac's stats over a game or full season. I can objectively see and say if I see improvement on the team as a whole, something I'm not at all seeing right now.

Just a ridiculously absurd statement

We're not a downfield passing offense because Bryce can't make those throws consistently. But I see no reason we can't be a solid possession passing game with consistent 10-15 yard passes, as we very well do have the WRs to do that between T-Mac, Renfrow, and now hopefully Coker coming back. Unfortunately that's not XL's specialty as you need good hands for those usually, he's more of the deep shot for his speed or short passes to let him run with it. That stat when throwing downfield is kinda crazy when you combine it with T-Mac being tied for 2nd in the league with 9 catches of 20 yards or more.

I've literally never one time said having a 200 yard rusher wasn't good. There is a monumental difference between saying that and saying "don't excuse Canales' continued poor play calling because our RB did something special" Having a 200 yard game because you had 160 yards on 6 of your carries is because of the RB, not the play calling. Again, look at the literal title of this thread, it's about the play calling problems, not anything else. This is basically the same thing as everyone going all googoo gaga over Bryce's last few games last year and thinking he turned some corner. No, he didn't, he had a handful of good to great plays but on the whole still wasn't very good, and people fell for that Mirage. Same thing, just about something else this time instead of Bryce.