tukafan21

lol, you've proven over the last 2 years that you view everything through a Madden lens of flash and not substance based in NFL realities. The number of absolutely asinine ideas that you've thrown out over the last couple of years is just comical. For example, you spent all of last season saying we needed to sign Higgins this past offseason, where I kept telling you that he wasn't even going to hit the market, but you wouldn't stop beating that drum. You think real life NFL is a Madden video game, both in the moves you can make and how you grade out players.

You were the loudest proponent on this board for Bryce and claimed we would be SB contenders his rookie year. He ended up with the worst rookie season for a QB in NFL history and we ended up with the #1 pick that we didn't even own. You have no leg to stand on with draft analysis. Beyond that... you were the same person who was bashing me for pushing T-Mac a few months ago and saying you'd take Hunter over him as a WR without question. The only reason you've even come around on T-Mac is because of me and my analysis of him and you then forcing yourself to watch him more and in the end, you realized that I was correct. So please, keep telling me how you know better than me, I'm listening....................

I don't think the Jaguars end up as the #1 pick, even without Lawrence. Without looking at every team's schedule the rest of the way, I have to think they might have the easiest remaining schedule. Titans x2, Jets, Raiders, and Colts are their remaining 5 games, who have a combined 17 wins between them, if you count the Titans wins twice, lol. Even without Lawrence, there is a very real chance they find a way to win one or two of those games and drop from the #1 pick in the end.

The post had nothing to do with Hunter specifically, but again, you see me mention his name and just take it as a slight to him. It was a post regarding the WR position at the top of this draft, of which, there are 3 who are clearly better than the rest, one of whom just so happens to be Hunter. The only reason I brought up Hunter and Burden was to point how how they are both likely slot WRs compared to T-Mac being an outside WR, and for me, that's a key differentiator in the end when you need to rank all 3 on a team's big board. If there was a team at the top of the draft with a clear outside #1 WR, then I think they would be a team more likely to take Hunter or Burden if they want a WR, as they would be a better pairing. This is also a perfect example of why I can't stand your draft/FA analysis of players, because you can't separate individual players and the need/fit with a particular team. You take everything about the players in a vacuum by itself, which is the worst way to evaluate player movement. You also only took issue with me bringing up Hunter, not Burden, because again, you seem unable to view my posts as anything other than Hunter shade, when they're really comparing players at a specific position and comparing them to our current roster and needs.

Anyone who thinks T-Mac is slow is just looking at him being 6'5" and making an assumption based on his height that he's a plodding big man. If someone has watched him play, you can see that no, he's not a track star who is going to run in the 4.3's, but he absolutely is going to end up sub 4.5 as he has more than enough speed for the position. He'll already be the #1 WR on almost every team's board before the combine, but after they see him do the same drills right next to the other WRs, it will be clear and obvious to every GM there in person that he's the top WR in the draft, by a decent distance. If Hunter or Burden were more true outside WRs instead of likely slot type of guys, it could be different, but with that being the case, there really is no argument for either being higher on team's WR rankings.

Coming from someone who has watched every snap of T-Mac's career, if anything the media is under-hyping him because of the team's and his QB's struggles this year. He should be getting similar hype to Harrison did last year but his "down year" compared to the numbers he should have been putting up has kept some of that hype at bay. Even with all that he's I think 3rd in the nation in receiving, which if you've watched the team play this year, is crazy impressive, as our program was a mess this year.

The Raiders are in a division with Mahomes, Herbert, and now Nix (not to mention they each have an elite HC as well). I can't see any way they pass up on a QB they like to stick with O'Connell for another season, that's just not the Raiders way of doing things, they like to make splashes. If Shedeur is there when they're on the clock, I really can't see them passing him up. Shedeur + Las Vegas + Raiders = a match made in NFL hell, I'd be shocked if it didn't happen unless the Giants take him at #1. Really the only way I don't think it happens is if Deion realizes that Shedeur getting sent to that division with those other QB's/Teams is probably not best for Shedeur's career to start out on a good note and pushes for it not to happen.

How do you see it playing out differently? Seems pretty clear cut in the Top 5 to me, it will be 2 QB's, Hunter, T-Mac, and then the 5th player is probably going to come down to team need with Johnson, Graham, and one of the OL in the mix there. The Giants and Raiders are almost 100% taking the 2 QB's assuming they're in position to, and if not, they're going to try to trade into the picks needed to take a QB. The Patriots are taking an OL, Hunter, or T-Mac, which way they go will likely be decided by what they're able to get in FA before the draft. If they get an OT or two, they go with Hunter or T-Mac, if they can't get a new starting LT, I think that's the way they go to protect Maye. The Jags are a mystery as they really shouldn't be this bad this year, they have a lot of pieces and really could go any direction with their pick because of it. I also only see one more possible win for us against Dallas, we're not beating the Eagles and I just don't think the Cardinals, Bucs or Falcons will lose to us with their playoff hopes on the line. And if we win 1 more game, I think we still end up in the #5 spot. Jets still play the Jags and the Dolphins twice, Titans play the Jags twice and the Colts, so even if we win one more, they both likely do as well with puts us in line for the 6 spot at worst. At that point it would come down to if the Browns are able to beat the Dolphins, but with that game being December 22nd and in Cleveland, I think they have a real shot at winning that cold weather game where the Dolphins tend to struggle. You have to keep in mind that we're also likely to have the tiebreaker over almost every team who might be picking in the Top 10. The Patriots are the only team currently slotted in the Top 11 picks that would pick before us if we end up with a tied record, we have the lower SOS than all the other 9 teams in that range.

Drafting T-Mac fixes almost all our WR problems, after that we just need to find that shifty quick twitch slot guy and we're set at WR for a number of years. T-Mac as the #1, XL as the #2, Coker and a quick twitch guy in the slot. That's a young core that has best WR room in the NFL type of upside.

And btw, the funny thing about possibly drafting either T-Mac or Graham... they grew up together and played for the same HS

Well first, it's not really fair to say the defense was bad even with DB in there, he played one game for us this year. But if we're at #5, it means one of the 2 QB's, T-Mac, Hunter, or Johnson would be there and I can't see any reason to take a DT when any of them are available. We take one of the 3 players or trade back for someone who wants one of the QB's, and that's how you pick up the extra 1st in a trade. Even if the QB's are gone and so is T-Mac/Hunter and for some reason we didn't want Johnson, you could still trade back to the 10-12 range and probably pick up another 2nd in that draft and probably another 2nd or 3rd in 2026 as well, which would likely be worth it. If we lose out, we're likely picking 4th at worst, if we win 1 more game, we still have a very real shot at picking #5 given the remaining schedules of all the teams in that range right now (they still play each other a lot and have to pick up wins because of it). The ideal situation would be we somehow end up with say the #2 or #3 pick and the Raiders end up #4. We swap picks with them while getting their 2026 1st so they can take one of the QB's, Hunter goes #3, and then we end up getting T-Mac at #4 while also picking up a future 1st. That is a very real possibility of happening if we lose out as the Raiders still play the Jaguars at home, and if we end with a tied record, we'll get the higher pick as they have a much tougher SOS. The Jags play the Titans twice, Jets, Raiders, Cots, if we lose out and they win just 1 of those games, we're probably picking ahead of them as right now they have the higher SOS. The Patriots actually might beat the Bills in the final game of the season as the Bills could be locked into the 2 seed by then and have no reason to play their regulars. If those things happen and we lose out, we're picking 3rd at worst. If the Raiders also beat the Jags out of that, we're picking 2nd behind the Giants. The Patriots losing out and taking T-Mac #2 instead of trading back with someone who wants a QB or taking an OL or Hunter is the big wrench in things. Besides that, losing out puts us in the driver's seat to take T-Mac, possibly even after a trade back as well.

When we drafted Luke, we already had Cam, Smith, Olsen, Stewart, Deangleo, Gross, Kalil, CJ, Hardy, Beason, TD, Gamble (and maybe more I'm forgetting), we had a lot of great pieces in place. Going pure BPA for a player with Luke's potential when the LB you already have is different when you already have all those pieces in place. Our OL right now is probably in a better shape than that team and our RBs and TE have potential compared to proven vets back then, but after that, the 2012 roster was in a far better shape than we are right now. We need a #1 WR, DEs, LBs, DBs, C, and depending who you ask a QB. Going BPA at pick #5 when that player is a DT and your current best player on either side of the ball is a DT, seems irresponsible. If he's the only player they like that high left, then you trade back and go with position of more need at a slot that makes sense for the player while adding other picks. If you trade back and he falls because other teams don't need/want a DT, then you consider him at that point because of the value.

Well for one, a big part of it being the worst unit is because the best player on the entire team has been hurt the entire season. The other is that we're lacking a top end edge rushing threat, adding Graham doesn't help there, there just isn't a Top 5 worthy edge rusher in this class. Yes, it would give us probably the best interior defensive line for the next decade and that would be cool to have. But I think we have far too many other holes that aren't already being somewhat patched up by the return of our best player healthy next season. If we miss out on T-Mac and could trade back while picking up an additional 1st in the trade, even next year, and get Graham, then I'd be much more on board. But even then, if we were to trade back, I think we'd be more in line to take a shot on one of the edge rushers. But for me, it's always going to be T-Mac over everyone else. We haven't had a true #1 WR since Smith and after QB and DE, it's our biggest hole right now. This not only solves that for the next decade, it solves it with a guy who is going to be a Top 5 WR in this league, don't over think it.

He hasn't caused any problems because Deion acts like he's another son of his and let's him do things that no other player in the country could get away with. If he was at any other school, he'd be just as good but he'd probably have a serious diva label on him, it's just ignored because the whole program is like that in Colorado. Deion catches him "stealing" shoes form his personal locker room and finds it hilarious and posts the video online for the world to see. He goes on podcasts during the season complaining that he's not the Heisman favorite, on his bye week he flys across the country to campaign for himself on the morning shows in person. You don't see that kind of stuff and see red flags for him when he's in the NFL and the HC isn't a man child surrogate father figure to him? He's also continuously said he expects to play both ways full time in the NFL, which if any team lets him do it, they're dumb and he's going to get hurt and/or struggle. Then if/when they don't and the team is struggling to score while he gets 5 gadget snaps a game, you think he's going to react well to that? Him and Shedeur have the biggest red flags for a first rounder since Manziel from that diva mentality standpoint, I'm not using a Top 5 pick on a CB that comes with that big of a risk when Johnson is an equal if not better prospect (and I've touched many times on never taking him over T-Mac as a WR either). And I've seen plenty of the "experts" who don't have him as the #1 prospect anyways. Many who do also talk about him as an "athlete" and that he'll be a CB who gets plenty of WR snaps as well, which again, I don't think is going to happen. The kid is an elite talent, it's why he was the #1 player in HS too, but at this point, he's just not the best WR and I don't think he's the best CB either (I do think he's 2nd). His past doesn't matter anymore. If you're taking a CB #1 overall or as the first non QB off the board, they have to be a STUD lockdown corner who might not even get many INTs because teams just won't throw that way, kinda like Revis or Asomugha at their peaks. That's not Hunter. I've likened him to Trevon Diggs, someone who is one of the better CBs in the league because he has the ability to lock his man down at times and makes a lot of great plays. But those great plays are because their game is predicated on taking risks, which in the NFL leads to giving up a lot of big plays as well. That's Hunter. If Hunter didn't take a snap on the offensive side of the ball, he'd be a great prospect and talked about as a Top 10 pick based on team needs for a CB. But he wouldn't be the #1 ranked prospect, he wouldn't be talked about as the first non QB to be taken. I don't see the few snaps you're going to give him a game on offense being worth jumping over better actual prospects at their positions while taking on the risks that come with him and the whole Deion world. That's what I mean by falling for the media hype, because I feel like the legend of Hunter has outgrown the real life NFL prospects Hunter.

Love the player, just not on a team who's best player is already a DT, for a team with as many holes as we have, that is just a poor allocation of picks/cap space to draft him right after paying DB.

You can see with this angle, he’s starting to lower his shoulder just as Lawrence initiated his slide, it’s real hard to not follow through with that hit with the speed these guys move at and not watching the play in slow motion So again, given his previous late hits, a suspension is probably warranted here, but if that wasn't the case, just getting tossed from the game probably would have been sufficient on this one. https://x.com/commishjared/status/1863303341201133601?s=46&t=LQU3yEizU6WVOcNoJTNyOw

It's not even as much as the "fake slide" argument as much as just the "late slide" argument in general, particularly with how fast these players move out there. When you're running full speed and know you're about to take 1 or 2 more steps before you initiate your tackle attempt, it's real hard to pull out of it when the QB slides at the last second. The game camera angle makes this hit look so egregious, but when you see the end zone angle from behind the defense, I'm much more sympathetic to it as you really see that he was really about to start his tackle when Lawrence decided to slide. This one I probably lean towards siding with the league because the defender was a repeat offender, but if I just saw that angle of the hit without that information, I'm not so sure I'd think a suspension was warranted, at least not a 3 game one.

The fact that you put any CB as the #1 overall prospect is just laughable That you compound the issue by not even putting the best CB in the draft in that spot just makes it worse. You do realize that Hunter literally isn't even a finalist for the Thorpe award that is given to the best DB in the nation, right? I would bet every dollar I have that Johnson will have a better career than Hunter and that T-Mac will end up better than both of them.

Right here you are LITERALLY saying he should be the top prospect because he is the best player in college football. He is LITERALLY not the best player in college football on either side of the ball, the ONLY reason he can be considered the best player in college football is LITERALLY because he plays both sides at a high level. He's not the best DB, he's not the best WR, he will NOT win the post season awards for best player at either position, he won't win the Bednarik as the nation's top defensive player. If you can't see how consistently calling him the best player in college football and using that as a reason for how you rank him, is explicitly using his 2 way play to justify your ranking of him, then that is a YOU problem.

You've brought up his 2 way play and doing things no college player has ever done, in every single thread about the draft. Don't try to say it's me who is pushing that agenda, that's just laughable. And he's not the best DB in the draft, he's the 2nd best behind Johnson, and that's not a knock on Hunter, saying he's not the best DB isn't saying he is a garbage player, he's still an elite prospect, just not as elite as others.

First, I disagree that he's the #1 prospect, I've said that numerous times, he plays 2 positions and he's not the best prospect at either of them. Second, you keep pointing to what he's doing in college about playing both ways as to a reason he's the #1 prospect, which again, as it's been pointed out to you numerous times, has ZERO bearing on his NFL prospects because he won't be a 2 way player. If someone isn't the best player at either position they play, why in the world should they be the #1 prospect in the draft? He's not a better CB than Johnson and he's not a better WR than T-Mac, so if you can't use his two way play as an argument (as he won't do that in the NFL), then why in the world should he be the #1 prospect in the draft? Do you not see why the math ain't mathing? And you keep saying all the experts rank him as #1, which just frankly isn't true, I don't keep notes of all the expert rankings, but a large number of them do NOT have him as the #1 prospect, for all the reason's I've stated. He's a generational collegiate talent, he's an elite NFL prospect, but he's not the #1 prospect at either position he plays. All 3 of those things in this previous sentence can be true, but you seem to think someone disagreeing with the last of the 3 is ridiculous because of the first two points. The fact that you can't separate those things and see them objectively, is why your opinions are invalid. You're the same person who screamed about Bryce being an elite prospect and drafting him would make us SB contenders last year, sorry if I'm not going to give you the benefit of doubt when it comes to your talent evaluations, especially when you keep pointing to his 2 way play in college when talking about wanting to draft him and ranking him #1 on your board.

That doesn't concern me as much with how few of those big bodies WRs there are in the NFL these days, at least of the elite WRs, most of them are more fast/quick than big. It's also why I want T-Mac so bad, he'd be a unicorn in this league right now with his size and skill combo. I actually think Hunter would make for a nice pairing with Horn because of that. Horn would be matched with the bigger/stronger WR of a team while Hunter would take on the speedier WRs. I see a lot of positives to drafting Hunter here, as a CB, but I see way too many downsides to want to take that risk with a pick we have to hit a home run with. I'm taking T-Mac and Burden over Hunter as a WR and I'm taking Johnson over him as a CB, 100 out of 100 times. Hunter is a legitimate generational collegiate talent, but the fact is that he's not the best prospect at either of his positions in this year's draft, combine that with other issues that come with him, and I'm just going a different way if he's on the board, let someone else deal with that headache that will follow him.

While this is true, I'm less concerned about him playing both ways from an endurance standpoint (although it's a very legitimate issue that would hurt him on both sides of the ball, especially late in the season). The real concern about him playing both sides is the physicality of the game at this level, especially with how slim his frame is, his career wouldn't last more than 5 or 6 years, if even that long. Playing 5 years full time on both sides of the ball is literally the equivalent to playing a 10 year career. If you think a 6'1" 185 lbs player can take the pounding of a 10 year career over the course of 5 years, stay healthy doing so, and still play at a high level for a number of years after that, then I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona. You can't take a player in the Top 10 of the draft (or really anywhere in the first round) if your plan is to use them in a way that will make it near impossible for them to play the length of a 2nd contract in the NFL. The only way he plays both ways in the NFL is as a CB who gets 5-7 snaps on offense a game, half of which would just have him out there as a decoy to try and take the defenses attention.

Even if he loses his explosiveness that he used to have, he'll still be an effective slot WR with his crisp route running. He basically would be a shorter Thielen who turns into a great possession slot WR who can be a safety valve for a QB. Whether he wants to do that is another question, you play RB your whole life, when you can't anymore, you might just want to retire and enjoy life being married to a model, wouldn't blame him. But even with the beating his body has gone through, I think he'd be a more than effective slot WR in this league for years to come.

No, I don't shade Hunter, you just are too balls deep into him that you think any criticism of his NFL prospects that aren't as the #1 pick in the draft, is an attack on him. I only go after people when they do exactly what you do when you talk about wanting him, you talk about his two way play, how he's doing something nobody has done, how he's going to win the Heisman, blah blah blah. None of those things have anything to do with projecting him in the NFL, which is why I go after you when you say it, because it's nonsensical reasons for wanting to draft a player. I point those things out and then give football specific reasons for why I don't want him, why I want someone else like T-Mac. If you want to go ahead and talk about Hunter's positives as a CB, you'd be making valid posts, but you don't, you just talk about the media superlatives that have literally absolutely zero bearing on what he'll be able to do in the NFL. And I've told you this, time and time again, but you still can't or refuse to see/understand it. It's not that hard, stop talking about wanting him because of what he's doing in college by playing both ways, he's not doing that in the NFL. Every time you talk about him being the best player in college, you lose any credibility in this discussion as the reason he's the best player in college isn't something that he'll be doing in the NFL, period. In fact, it's a very real and legitimate reason I do not even have him on my draft board. I think he's a CB in the NFL and if the team that drafts him is losing and struggling on offense, he's going to become a problem in the locker room when he feels like he needs to be used on offense because of it. It's a situation that I want no part of when you combine it with my fear about his frame holding up at the next level long term, as well as that I think WR is a significantly bigger need for us than a CB.