tukafan21

Howie Roseman is literally the best GM in the league at identifying talent, using them as an example is extremely flawed. The problem is we keep trying to patch the holes on a sinking ship, hoping for a quick fix turnaround, but all it does is keep us in NFL purgatory. We haven't been good since Cam got hurt in Pittsburgh and yet we haven't embraced a re-build in all those years since then either. That's not how the NFL works, we have such a bad overall roster, but people are pinning their hopes on a guy who is never going to be an elite QB. Make it make sense Again, this same argument has been going on for almost 10 years with this franchise. Some fans root for losses, the others root for December wins, and we tend to get those late pointless wins almost every season. How has that worked out for us so far? How is this franchise doing? When was the last time we sniffed the playoffs? At what point do people realize we aren't doing things the right way?

I want to be playing in the playoffs and contending for SB's. You don't do that by winning meaningless games in December every freaking season, which we tend to do. How has that worked out for us since 2015? It hasn't worked, it's why we've been stuck in NFL purgatory for basically the last decade. But sure, let's keep celebrating these late season wins, they keep me all warm and fuzzy inside during those 1-7 starts and ruin the season for us before the midway point of the schedule. This argument happens every year, at what point do the people who celebrate these wins realize it's not working? People point out the good players we did draft later in the draft, but they obviously aren't helping turn around the franchise, maybe we'd have gotten even better players than them if we were higher in the draft. I'm sick of having a terrible team, I'm not going to celebrate wins that cost us significant draft capital when I think we're stuck with an awful QB. If we had a Drake Maye, who has looked like he has a real future, then yea, I'd be more on board with celebrating a meaningless Week 18 win, because I'd feel we had a future. Bryce aint it, sure I'd love him to become that guy, but I 100% do not see it happening, so things like today just piss me off as I feel like we keep setting ourselves back as a franchise.

We missed out on Herbert and Sewell by 1 pick each. I'm not going to go through every draft to find difference making players that we could have had, but you can do the same thing both ways. Fact is we lose both these OT games and we have the #1 pick, which likely is being turned into multiple 1st's and another couple other picks. There is no world where these 2 wins and the 8th pick in the draft is better for our future than ending up with say the 5th pick, another 2nd, and then an extra 2026 and maybe 2027 1st rounder. Culture isn't built because you pull out an OT win, it's built because of everything the team does through the season. Our culture moving forward would be exactly the same had we lost those two OT games in the end, but because we didn't, we miss out on A TON of talent.

With the right coaches, 100% Bryce and AR are essentially polar opposites of each other. One has ungodly physical ability, the other is extremely limited. One sees the game at an elite level, the other severely struggles with it so far. The point isn't about who they are as QB's right now, it's about what they will be 5 years from now. I'd rather bet on hiring the right coaches to get the best out of AR and get the most out of his physical abilities. AR's upside is miles higher than Bryce's due to the physical differences between them. Will it pan out that way? Who knows, but since I don't think Bryce will ever be a Top 20 QB in this league, I'm taking the chance on the guy with uber elite physical traits. Yes, right now Bryce is a better QB, but I don't care about right now, just like I don't care about the win today. Right now does nothing for the team 3 years from now. Sure, AR could be out of the league while Bryce is still a starter in 3 years. But if you're betting on one becoming a Top 15 QB 3 years from now, I'm putting every dollar I have on AR there, because I don't think Bryce has a snowball's chance in hell at doing that. Sure, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am, Bryce just isn't that guy to me, never has been.

I'll be the first to admit that the Bryce over the last 2 months has been lightyears better than the Bryce I was bashing the first year and a half of his career. The problem is he is now looking like the Bryce that I thought we were drafting. A solid game manager who sees the game at an elite level, but will always be held back by his physical limitations. That he's going to be the type of QB who is never bad enough to let walk in FA, but also not good enough to turn a team into a contender unless you have the PERFECT roster built around him. And even then, you'd be a contender because of the rest of the roster, not the QB. The problem is even if you build that perfect roster, it's usually done on rookie contracts and you can only keep that roster together for a season or two before you lose too many key contributors. This is how you get stuck in NFL purgatory, it's not how you build a constant contender of a franchise. People are getting excited because we're better than we were before. I don't want to be better than we were before, because that's an extremely low bar. I want to be a winning franchise, and I flat out don't see Bryce being the type of QB who can do that for a team.

Will be real close as to who ends up 7th and 8th between us and the Jets, no idea how each of the remaining games will affect the SOS, but as of right now we're separated by .002 in the SOS. EDIT: Looks like the KC/Denver game going final increased our SOS advantage by another .002, so right now we have a .004 lead on the 7th pick, but not about to do the math on the remaining few games to see how it changes things.

And also, none of this means I think all of the guys above are SB contending caliber QB's either. But I do think they all have higher potential than Bryce, which is the question at hand.

Easy.... (in order by divisions just for ease of going through each team) Allen, Tua, Maye, Lamar, Burrow, Stroud, Richardson, Lawrence, Mahomes, Herbert, Nix, Hurts, Daniels, Dak, Goff, Love, Williams, Darnold/McCarthy, Baker, Penix, Purdy, Kyler That's 23 right there that I'd take with an eye on the future, and it doesn't include the older guys who are still better than Bryce like a Stafford or Geno. It doesn't include any rookies who will come in over the next few years that I think will have a better career than Bryce as well. Even if you want to argue a few of those guys like Richardson, Penix, Darnold/McCarthy, or Tua (health) don't belong there on your list, I think at least a couple of them end up better than Bryce, which still keeps Bryce outside the Top 20 QB's moving forward. For me in the end, it's Bryce's physical limitations that hurt his prospects for me. I think the right coaches can easily build up someone like AR to be a better QB than Bryce. Sure, it's going to take the right coaching staff to do it or he could be a bust, but I'd still bet on his physical talents over Bryce's physical limitations. The point is, even if you want to remove some of those guys off your personal list, that 20ish spot is really his max potential if everything goes right for him, he's never cracking the Top 16 to be an above average starting QB.

Being a team with something to play for doesn't make them a good team. Neither of those teams would have even had something to play for if their divisions were better this season. Both the Cardinals and Falcons should have realistically been out of the hunt a few weeks earlier than they were, but their weak divisions kept them in it.

No, he was just being smart and waiting for the right opportunity to show up. For an offensive mind like him, there's no reason to take a job that doesn't already have a good QB there for him to work with and set himself up for early success. Why leave great situation for one where you're likely to get fired after a couple years because of not having a QB? He's played it smart and I'm sure it will work out for him with whatever job he takes.

No, they have a QB better than anyone we've had since before the Steelers game where Cam got hurt.

I wish there was a way to see what all these posters who are excited about this win (and the Cardinals win) were saying 3-4 years ago when we were winning those meaningless late season games. I'll bet they were saying the same thing, "this is how you build a culture" and "it's going to carry over into next year" and "blah blah blah" That to me is why I don't understand all the hate I get for taking this stance, it's not like we're some new franchise that has never gone through this before. We've been doing it for YEARS, we win these meaningless late season games, a group of fans think it's the start of a turnaround of the franchise, but all it does is hurt our ability to draft better players and we rinse and repeat the next year. I don't take joy in saying this stuff, but I just call it like I see it. Yes, Bryce played better the last 2 months, but there are still at least 20 QB's that I'd take over him in a heartbeat right now. You're not going to ever contend in today's NFL with a QB who is outside the Top 20 in the league, it's just the way the game is played these days. Getting excited about possible mediocrity just because we've been garbage for so long is now how you build a winning franchise, it's how you get stuck in NFL purgatory, and I'm sick of being stuck there.

I saw the other day that Ben Johnson would have been very interested in the Patriots job if it opened up. Them winning and then firing Mayo puts them in a great spot to hire Johnson and then draft T-Mac to give him a great QB/WR combo to work with.

Getting the 1st pick probably would have actually meant we got about the 5th pick, a 2026 1st, another couple picks in the 2-4 rounds, and possibly even a 2027 1st as well. But sure, these two OT wins and the 8th pick will help us win games 3 years from now more than all of those draft assets would have

Hope those 5 TDs keep you all nice and warm and fuzzy inside 2 years from now when we're finishing up yet another losing season for however many years in a row it will be by then and complaining that we're going to either overpay Bryce or need a new QB again

Yea!!!! We won yet another meaningless end of season game that hurt our ability to draft a better player next year. Honestly, we do this every single fuging year and the fans somehow never learn. How many times do we have to do this before the fans start to realize it's a vicious cycle that you can't break until you embrace a rebuild? Again, 2 OTs just dropped us from 1st to 8th in the draft. Which in the end, probably cost us an additional 1st round pick, maybe a 2nd First, and probably a couple of other middle round picks as well as we'd have been able to trade back. In no world is that worth the 2 wins that do nothing but provide a temporary enjoyment for those too shortsighted to see how it's not a good thing for us.

I don't care that this will get poo all over, but I called this before we even took him and I'm now even more confident it will be the case... People need to stop getting excited about a guy who has a max potential of maybe the 20th best QB in the league and doesn't have the arm talent to will your team into contention every season. It's the definition of QB and NFL purgatory and how you get stuck drafting in the 12-15 range every year with no shot at ever actually being a contender. Poo away on this post all you want, but it's true and everyone getting all excited over Bryce rigth now better not complain 3 years from now when we still suck because Bryce just isn't that guy. 2 OT wins in the last month of the season cost us the #1 overall pick, as that's where we'd be if we lost both of those games. Hope that temporary moral boost is worth it

When the patriots beat the bills (which I called like 3 weeks ago), that Cardinals win is going to end up costing us the #1 pick in the draft. But sure, go on telling me how that one win is going to help this team in the future because it helped build a winning culture.

Nah, he's too good of a backup If Bryce falls flat on his face next year, we're going to suck and we need to just embrace it, play him all year long and be in a position to draft his replacement with that high 1st round pick he'll lead us to. Dream scenario is Ben Johnson goes back to the Lions for another year for some reason... We draft T-Mac... We're awful and get the #1 pick... Then we sell the Manning family on hiring Ben Johnson and have a potential wild offense with Johnson leading Manning, T-Mac, XL, Coker, Sanders, Hubbard, Brooks. Yea I like what we see from Canales so far, but the above situation could set us up for an amazing 10-12 year run

It's equal parts about Bryce as well as about Lebron, no Arizona fan is expecting him to be playing meaningful minutes anytime soon, he doesn't even start for his HS, he needs time to develop and the family knows that too. But Bryce is good friends with a few other Top 10 recruits in this class that we're in the running for, one of whom is also signing with Lebron's agency too. So this one is less about getting the Lebron connection as much as taking Bryce as a developmental project will likely help us land 2 or 3 other 5 star recruits (Koa Peat, Brayden Burries, Alijah Arenas). But yea, getting Lebron in the fold of supporting the program isn't going to hurt either, especially as it's likely to lead to an increase of NIL funds, possibly directly from Lebron if he wants to help his son be on a winning team. And with scholarships increasing next year to 15 per team, there is no downside in taking someone like Bryce, even if "overrated" because it's going to benefit the program in a number of other ways.

Hot Take.... Bryce is going to bring so much attention and money into the team that it's going to help land great players because they are going to want to join him. Oh... wait... this is a thread about Bryce Young for the Panthers... my bad ya'll, I'm still riding high on Bryce James committing to my Wildcats today. Guess @CamWhoaaCam is about to become a huge Arizona Basketball fan now too, we all know how much he loves son's of HOFers on Big 12 teams, LOL

If you think Bryce has the ability to fire the line drive rope throws that someone like Jameis or Wentz can throw, then I have some Arizona beachfront property to sell you. Bryce has to have a perfectly clean pocket to step into and make a perfect throw to get the ball 50 yards down the field, at least 20 other starting QB's in this league can make that throw off base and with just the flick of a wrist. If people want to believe Bryce can still be a good QB in this league, that's their prerogative, I'd disagree, but people can still think it. However, even those people have to understand and admit that he just doesn't have even an average starting QB arm for the NFL. Short of him starting to take steroids and bulk up like crazy, he'll always have one of the weakest arms of all starting QB's in the league, and that's not debatable.

I think if the Raiders can trade only their 2026 1st in addition to this year's first to get into position to get their QB, they'd do it in a heartbeat given all their QB issues over the years. Which is why I'd love to just be one pick ahead of them, so we still get whoever we would have taken without a trade back and pick up that extra 1st. But I don't think anyone is going to be dumb enough to give up a haul like we did for Bryce, it was too much then, it would be too much now. A single future 1st round pick though, that seems much more reasonable.

The alternative is you understand Bryce isn't the future AND that this team isn't a QB away from contending anyways. You trade Bryce for whatever the best offer is for him this offseason then go and sign someone like Jameis or Wentz this offseason to be the starter next year. Both are going to end up costing your team wins, it's they're not starters anymore, but they both have big arms and aren't afraid to sling the rock. It will help our young offensive weapons grow as they'll get tons of targets from all sorts of routes, but yes, they're likely to cause us to lose a lot of games, which is fine as it's a QB loaded draft next year, where we then draft a QB with our 1st rounder. Fans won't like it next year while we're losing, but the reality of the situation is that it's the fastest way to get us back on the right track towards having a contending team again. If we luck out and get the #1 pick and get Manning, then we could have a really bright future too.

No, still at 6th With a loss next week, the lowest we can be is 7th given the SOS's of the teams we're tied with, highest we can get to is 2nd. Even with a win the most we can fall is likely 9th as (not sure our SOS can rise enough to catch the Saints to fall to 10th) I think the best outcome for us is we lose along with wins by the Jets, Jags, Giants, and Titans (possible with the Jets getting Miami maybe without Tua and the others playing teams with nothing to play for). That puts us 3rd behind the Patriots and Browns with the Raiders behind us at #4. Then one of the two teams ahead of us fall in love with Hunter and take him, the other trades with the Giants to take a QB. We are then able to leverage the threat of a trade to someone like the Titans or Jets and get the Raiders to give us their 2026 1st (and maybe more) to swap picks with us so we can still take the player we want and add draft capital at the same time.