tukafan21

Dude, you were literally one of the people the last couple years talking about how winnable our division is because of the QB and HC situations for each team and that it should have made us an attractive option for the HC/QB candidates out there. Now because it doesn't fit your narrative (your love of Shedeur and him going to the Raiders), you're arguing that players shouldn't factor the division into their decision making. You can't have it both ways. And even then, this is just a bad take on your part saying all the Chargers/Broncos have is young QB's. As they also have great HC's who have a proven track record of winning and winning championships. While both will also be playoff teams this year as well. Just because the Raiders have Bowers, doesn't mean the team is in any position to contend in that division any time soon. Just having 6 of your games against those other teams is a huge hinderance in making the playoffs. So if Deion and the family are sitting back and looking at what places would give him a better chance at long term success, it's not going to be the division with the best HC/QB combo situations in the NFL. If Nix pans out (and it's looking like he should), that division is going to be BRUTAL for the next 10 years, they legit could have the best QB in the game, another Top 5 QB, and then wherever Nix ends up as.

I think the two New York teams would be the top 2 destinations for Shedeur in Deion's mind, especially of the teams who are needing new QB's right now. I think the NYC market would be so appealing for the Sanders family, if you can bring a SB to either NY team, you become a legend and have endless marketing opportunities. I know they seem to love the idea of him playing for the Raiders, but honestly, that is probably the worst situation any QB or HC should want to be in right now. That's a division where the other 3 teams have 2 sure fire HOF coaches and a 3rd who just won the NCAA NC and has been to a SB, as well as maybe the best QB ever in his prime, and two other great young QB's (I really like what I've seen from Nix this year). If the Raiders didn't have all that in their division I'd get the appeal, but the Raiders are so far behind those other 3 teams in the division, it's just not a situation I'd want to be drafted into if I'm a QB right now.

I don't think they're going to be #1 anyways, I think they beat the Bills who have nothing to play for next week. But I doubt any team is giving up a huge haul for either of these QB's, it basically is 2023 all over again and whoever is #1 would need a sucker out there like we were who makes a bad trade, not sure it's going to happen again without us in the running to be said sucker.

I'm long on the record as saying I don't think Shedeur is that guy, but he's still going Top 10. Because the Giants are taking a QB if either of those two are available, and then if either are available for the Raiders, I can't see them passing on either of them as well. There are still other teams like the Titans or even the Jets to take one if they're sitting there too. If Deion wasn't his dad though, then I could see it being like the Pickett year, but the Deion shine with be too bright for many to see through in the end.

What kind of math did you use to get there? Patriots and Jags = not QB needy Browns just restructured Watson, guaranteeing he'll be there next year too Leaves only 2 QB needy teams ahead of us, assuming the Titans move on from Levis this offseason and don't want to give him one last shot.

Yep, and the Jets played them, problem is they also played the 49ers, so a Lions win tomorrow would help the Jets there too. It's going to come down to the game tonight, if the Falcons lose we'll likely keep the 6th pick even after the Lions beat SF since it will add only 1 win but 2 losses to our SOS, but if the Falcons win I'm guessing that bumps us back to 7th for now.

Well something in one of the afternoon games caused the Jets SOS to jump a bit, we're now back in the 6th spot for the time being... but yea, we'd be 2nd right now if not for that win last week

In theory this makes sense, but not in reality. Because the reality is that the players and coaches on those bad teams are also playing for either their current jobs or auditioning for new ones the next year as well. So when both sides are really auditioning for next year, advantage goes to the bad starters who are still better players than the backups. Ownership and front office members who know they will be back the next year are the only ones who want them to lose for the draft positioning. So unless they go to the coaches and say, "your jobs are safe for next year, so please try to lose this game to help yourself with a better draft pick" then the bad teams are usually in a better spot to win those type of games.

Yes and no No, don't do it with any of the picks in the first 4 rounds, let those chips fall. But I'd be all for using all of the 5th round and later picks to get additional 3rd and 4th rounders which have a better chance on hitting. I'd rather have 2 more late 3rds or early 4ths than have the 6 picks in rounds 5 and 7. 11 rookies aren't making the Week 1 roster anyways, I'd package them all up for whatever we can get in the 4th round or better. And if we can't get them, I'd just trade them for picks in next year's draft where we might be able to use them to trade up for a QB if needed.

We went to OT against a team that was still alive in the playoff hunt. Winning or losing that game at that point would have zero affect on the culture that is being built right now, just being competitive and taking it to OT accomplished that job. Case and point, we won that game and then just got blown the F out this week. If we couldn't use that to build upon this week, do you really think it's going to have even the smallest affect on the team moving forward into next season? It's why I've said there is a HUGE difference between tanking and losing after a closely battled game. Showing the fight and losing a close OT game would have done the same thing for the culture but not hurt out draft position and ability to trade back with a QB needy team. And no, I don't think it's hyperbole when you're talking about 3 picks later at that point in the draft. If you're talking about 17 to 20, then yea, it's probably the same thing. But not in the Top 5ish of the draft, that's where every draft slot can have massive ramifications down the line. Just because great players were drafted after our pick doesn't mean us picking higher wouldn't have given us a better chance at hitting big on a pick. Going back and looking at the other players drafted later is the cherry picking, because the fact remains that the higher you pick, the better chance you have at getting a difference maker and there is no logical way to say it's not true.

And now that I think about it after my other post in a different thread about how I think NE beats the Bills next week. There is a very real chance that winning last week will end up costing us the #1 pick in the draft. Which means we could have traded back into about the pick we're going to end up having in the end. So that win last week will less be about the draft position it cost us, but more the additional draft picks we would have picked up by trading back to the same spot we'll end up. So that win might have cost us a couple extra future 1st round picks in reality.

I actually think there is a better chance NE wins next week than lose. The Bills are locked into the 2 seed, having absolutely nothing to play for, while the Patriots coaches are coaching for their jobs and so are a lot of players. I think NE wins next week unless the literally purposefully don't try to win and actually call plays that aren't designed to put up points, as I think the Bills will be resting anyone of significance.

Yes the Giants did, but so did we last week. We'd be sitting at #2 right now had we lost last week.

I'm sorry, but this is just absolute utter nonsense In general, the higher you pick, the better chance you have at not screwing up the pick. But your final point about not evaluating well means that's even more true. If you don't evaluate well, the lower you pick, the better chance you have at screwing it up because the more elite players are already off the board. So basically because you don't trust us to draft well, you'd rather win meaningless late season games in a lost season and make it tougher on us to hit on our next draft pick at the same time. That's how poo franchises continue to be poo. Win meaningless games that cost you a chance at true impact players and then draft questionable prospects who might not pan out and compound the issue. "hey guys, we suck at evaluating and drafting, so let's make it harder on us next year by drafting later so we can celebrate a pointless win that we'll forget about in a few days" make it make sense

I was responding to someone talking about Parsons, so I pointed out that using him as an example is horrible because he wasn't an edge rusher as a draft prospect. You responded to that by talking about the Horn pick, I was just re-iterating that my point had nothing to do with us, it was solely about Parsons being an anomaly who changed positions and why he's a bad player to use as an example of a stud being drafted outside the Top 10. So I could say, why do you keep going back to Horn, I'm not talking about Horn at all

I'd rather overpay for a legit pass rusher than overpay for someone like Higgins who we'd need to pay Top 5 WR money to get to even discuss coming here. T-Mac on a rookie deal plus an expensive pass rusher in FA will have a much bigger impact on the team than overpaying for a WR with a lower ceiling than T-Mac and drafting a bit of a project pass rusher.

Sure, and I think it's one of those things that comes down more to need than anything. But personally, I think he'd go ahead of Carter and Graham, and again, I personally rank him over Hunter as well. The Giants and Raiders winning though actually makes it less likely of Johnson falling to 7 anyways. There is a very real chance that neither of them feel these QBs are worth a haul to move up to get them, which if it's the case, it opens up 2 more players to be drafted in the Top 3 that aren't QB's

It has nothing to do with Horn and it has nothing to do with even the Panthers It's a general statement for all teams/fans who like to say, "but Parsons went 12th, blah blah blah" Parsons was a MLB, he was never going Top 5, even sneaking into the Top 10 would have been tough, people thought we were crazy to take Kuechly at 9 since he was a MLB, they just never go that high in the draft. Anyone who points to Parsons draft position compared to the player he is today is completely missing the point, he was NOT a pass rusher coming into the draft, so any talk about his draft position is just flawed, literally even the team that drafted him didn't see him being a pass rusher for them, it took injuries for them to find it. And no, you don't have the same chance at screwing up a higher pick. The higher your pick, the better chance you have at not screwing it up, that's just common sense.

I'd be surprised if he's still there at 7, personally I think he's the top CB in the draft (his size is the differentiator for me when comparing with Hunter)

Jets currently ahead of us by .002 in the SOS I'd love to know what has to happen over the final games this week and next for us to have a worse SOS than them, but that seems like WAY too much work to try and dig into and figure out lol

I don't think there is a blue chip can't miss pass rusher in this draft, even the top pass rushers are more of projects than sure fire guys, more in the mold of a Burns who might take a couple of years of development before they can be great. Even if we don't take T-Mac, I still don't like taking any of these pass rushers around pick 5ish, I'd much rather use our cap room to address the issue, with proven vets who will make more of an immediate impact. Take the stud who will be a true outside #1 WR, something we haven't had since Smitty.

T-Mac and I don't even care about anything else, maybe ever, I've never wanted the Panthers to draft a player more than him.

People need to stop pointing to the Parsons pick as an example of a stud player being drafted outside the Top 10. Parsons the draft prospect is NOT the player Parsons is today. Going into the draft he was a MLB, not an edge rusher. He got thrust into that role as a rookie because of all their injuries and he was so good at it that they changed up their plans for him. Even the Cowboys missed on that projection of him or else they'd have just made him an edge rusher from the start, so people need to stop pointing to him as one example, because in reality, every single team in the league missed on that evaluation of him.

Most NFL divas are extremely hard workers as well, because you can't be a diva if you suck. Being a hard worker, even being a good person, doesn't preclude someone from being a diva and a locker room cancer in the NFL. He's made it VERY well known that he expects to be a full time two way player in the NFL. That's just not happening, and when it doesn't happen, I think he's going to be a locker room problem. Particularly when he's drafted by a bad team at the top of the draft and they very well could struggle on offense. There have been way too many concerning things with him, even just playing for Deion wasn't good for him. His HC has been a surrogate father figure and basically just a buddy of his, that's not happening in the NFL, I think it's going to create problems when he's treated like any other player.

So it's starting to look like we'll be 6th if Miami beats Cleveland today, 5th if Cleveland wins (this is also if we keep the SOS advantage over the Jets who we're tied with, if today's results makes that go the other way, that's another pick we drop). But we'd have been sitting in 2nd if we lost last week. All those people excited about that win last week, are you still feeling all warm and fuzzy about that meaningless win? Is it really going to keep you excited all offseason and into the draft when it might have cost us 4 spots in the draft? If we had the 2nd pick, we'd have been in a perfect spot to trade back to pick up additional picks, something most people want to do. If not, we'd have had our pick of better players at #2 as well. Winning last week hurt our franchise more than it helped, it's really not hard to understand this concept late in the season.