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considering [Dave] Canales enters Year 3 working for an impulsive owner. There’s not much room to slide backwards from an 8-9 season and 13-21 overall record. It doesn’t help that his primary job has been the development of quarterback Bryce Young, and the progress there has been inconsistent. Canales was supposed to turn the former top pick into a franchise quarterback. If that doesn’t happen by next January, the Panthers could be looking for both a new coach and quarterback." —————- The format of that doesn’t display on my iPad I had to paste it as plain text to see it so I am leaving it here to refer to… I am gonna disagree with a lot of that. First reference is Tepper. That interview posted here a few days back gave me the impression that he is really happy with his FO. And Canales. Seat isn’t even warm as of right now. IMO. The assertion that Canales is supposed to turn Young into a franchise QB is something I have never bought. First, how could anyone look at 2023Bryce and see a can’t miss Franchise player? He was for sure a could miss. I am not sure it was fix Bryce or you are both gone. Maybe that will happen The longer it drags on, I think maybe the more likely a total house cleaning could be an outcome. I mean it is only year 3 of Canales coming up. But as a couple of people like to point out, he has shown other concerning flaws that might damage his stock. As far as the hot seat, mid season with 2-3 wins I would imagine yeah it would be pretty warm. I think a small regression to say 7 or maybe even 6 wins would be tolerated but the seat is warm for 2027. Depends on the circumstances.

It would be a little easier to not have this come up constantly for years if he would have performed at a higher level this year and conclusively proven what he is or isn’t. Despite (or because of) some nice bright spots, I can’t see where has done that. So here we are. Again. Still. I don’t think anyone likes being here.

A guy with limited assets as you propose may be (or is) the case, needs to surround himself with the best people he can find. Forget the ego and bring in some talent. Anyone always should do that anyway, it is more important for some. * Just speculating but say he goes two more years and is still getting owned, will he see it or be in denial? If he knows he is limited he can adapt. If he doesn’t, well not so good. If he is short in the X/O department he can keep his culture with good help. . * I am going to say, with Bevell coming in, Canales is trying to do that.

You think someone being unable to make an argument that can stand with out deprecating those making the counter argument, makes a person a victim? Interesting.

I am not stanning him for sure I have issues with him as well. But when you say that, you are still seeing that despite his obvious shortcomings, he won 8 games with Bryce Young playing QB, in his second year as coach. After taking over a 2-15 team. So there is something in there. Maybe he is a slow learner. I have been one before with certain things, but when it clicked, I had it. Just took a while. There are people like that. This will be an interesting year whatever the record ends up being. Lots of plots and sub plots.

Lol that is exactly what I expected. Or some Waterboy stuff. I started to ask if your name was Rico. not sure we can go 10mil. How about a draft beer and some wings after the game? For free,

Send us your game tape

Bryce relied on him so much and there are young guys that need to develop and Bryce needs to learn to use them. He looked for AT all the time. Security blanket. Comfort zone. Training wheels are nice and safe. Time for the QB to progress and incorporate the new guys. I am looking for the right analogy but let’s say you always choose something and I want you to do something different. I take your safe choice away, you have to do something different.

That is likely true. They are letting him walk, so we know they rate him lower than Love. They are the people who see him every day and should know. These guys can get better with game reps as far as it goes, for the flip side. I think Willis is past the expiration date in terms of finding great value. And a flat out signing we should have a better track record than he has before paying the going rate. And we aren’t in line to be doing that right now anyway. We are in the hidden gem/reclamation zone of QB shopping, I would think. At least I am hopeful that we are.

I am wanting to draft off of need, if we can match need to value. Say we need OT and the guy we look at is poor value at 19. See if we can trade back. You can pick up ammo to move up in the 2nd in the process. (For that LB) If it just will not fall in your favor than you have to go with BAP over a big reach.

The age thing, I think it works in the sense that people used it with DJ Johnson and XL still being raw. That they should have it by that age, but don’t, is a red flag. Also competing against 20 year olds, they should have an advantage which could disappear against grown men. That is a valid concern. The flip side is the guys that are 24 but are ready. I see nothing to scare me off of them. Heck you get a more mentally mature player too, most likely. Maybe you get a quicker transition. No redshirt or apprentice type of year. You could probably apply the age criteria by positions. 24 years old might work better for QBs than LBs or DTs.

It’s out there to look up. There is a definition. It is so convoluted and broad I got frustrated before I could finish it. It just seemed wrong to me. I think the words they choose for the names of these stats are the bigger problem than the stat itself. Because there were things in that definition that I thought to myself “how is that big time?”

yes. I never paid much attention to these stats until people started using them to tell me how great Bryce is. When I have watched every snap he ever took and look at video during the week, and can objectively see how ‘great’ he is, what his throws look like, the whole thing. The stats criteria is just misleading to faulty when you look at it. That doesn’t reflect on Bryce, I can’t see how it does. It is directed at the criteria being used to evaluate him. And others. No joke, the game casts now call a 16 yard TD a deep pass - I can only surmise it is because it went 4 yards deep in the end zone making it a 20 yard throw. Who among us, all being likely lifelong football fans, grew up picturing a 16 yard TD pass as a deep ball? Anybody? It is just not a helpful stat, it is absurd. There is no stat for 30 yard throws. Nor for 40. And so on. And they are generally more demanding throws. Say your QB nailed 4 35 yard throws in a game and my QB nailed 4 20s. Should they be rated equally as deep passers off of that? Tell me my guy is has the best rate on 20-30 yard throws instead. Break it down. To call 20 yards and everything past that the same thing? Why would you do that? I mean, calling a 20 yard pass a deep ball, is like calling Bryce tall.

If you restricted the content of your reply to opinions on the subject rather than insulting g the people who post something g you don’t agree with, I wouldn’t say a word. poo is unnecessary.

This is the second, at least, comment in here that is personally attacking people who criticize Young. Calling us things. Questioning our intelligence. The other one was “miserable losers”, think. It is telling, that I don’t see any from the Bryce doubters insulting your intellect or character. Speaks for itself. Which saves me the trouble of insulting you.

As I understand it, and I may be wrong, the stat is less about situational success and more about a nice throw into a small window. And then you can project that onto a situational deal. It has been a while but the definition was really broad and doesn’t focus on ‘time’ at all. The throw could be in the 2nd qtr of an October football game. A purely routine situation. It is a quality of the throw thing. They name these stats to impart importance to them. Big time. Deep. To me those aren’t really honest characterizations and it frustrates me. Kind of like we (or, I, anyway) tend to think of game winning drives as being a 4 minute or less drive brilliantly orchestrated by the QB when in reality it can include a score following a turnover on the first play of the 4th quarter, a couple of handoffs and the kicker comes in. If that is the deciding score, you get a game winning drive. That is the truth.

For me the time to take the chance was where the Packers got him (yet it doesn’t seem like they took advantage). Or where the Titans did (3rd round). Anyway Green Bay gave Tennessee a 7th rounder for him. Everyone is on him now. The ticket price has gone way up to where he is like betting on the prohibitive favorite. He would have to ‘win’ or you are screwed.

I have to say, the two against the Rams in… December? Those were big time throws. But they count a little out in the 2nd quarter as a big time throw. Equally. When I saw the graphic about this I thought I was looking at the sports section of the Babylon Bee, I got a good laugh out of it. So thanks for that. I go back to it again, they call a 20 yard pass a deep ball. In the gamecast world, you will read about TD passes from 16 yards being deep. It’ll say Marino to Duper complete deep 16 yards TD. How can one live in such an insane world?

I didn’t unlock anything like that but there was a threshold of what you asked for, if they came to you with it. You could always get overpaid. Hold out one more time. I had some drafts.

I feel like we need LOT so bad now that we would be duty bound if a qualified prospect was sitting there. My other desire would be trading down to get the right value in the first, if possible, and have some ammo to move up for a LB in the second.

Well, their guy wasn’t much better.

It depends. You won’t get hurt too bad, number one, with a solid target number two, if you are talking 19 to 16 or 17, it won’t be that bad and if you have number one right, you should be pretty straight. Coming 3 slots from 19 is not comparable to 3 slots from 6. Obviously.

It kind of rivals 2001 for that. We found every way to lose a game that year. Some of it was mind blowing. That team was not a 1 win team. This year? I’m not sure we had a single last second stunning WTF loss all year. Where we pulled defeat from the jaws of victory. Though, I am drinking and inclined to forget something. This team was not a playoff team. We slipped up and performed admirably in the wild card game, yes we did. So credit there but I don’t have much else. It doesn’t feel like a lock that we improve this coming year record wise, at all. The Icky injury just really hurt us. Every potential improvement we could pencil in is knocked down a notch behind needing to cover that.

We effing need to. I know where the holes are and edge and LOT are for sure two. But I really have missed having good LB play. That is my guilty pleasure pick all day. They only thing I would be good giving it up for is a really solid LOT.

There’s no way we are gonna know, if they address it it will be portrayed as a mutual decision, most likely. Whether it was 80-20 ‘mutual’ or 50-50 mutual. One thing I believe is encouraging is they know they have to do better and probably have a good enough rapport where this can be candidly discussed. I doubt this was forced on Canales. Yeah it could have been I just don’t think it was 100-0