TD alt

If their grading system is based upon stats, then...but keep on splitting hairs, as it suits your narrative.

PFF uses the term "context normalized-scoring," which is based upon statistics. Hell, any serious metric or analytic systems are based upon stats and expectations, and looks at what players do against those expectations, but If you don't think that stats play any part in a players grades, be wrong. At the end of the day, it's heady anyway, so everyone is not going to understand everything. I'm done with this conversation for now. But just know, it's OK to be wrong.

PFF uses these metrics in player evaluations, and use those to come up with player grades. It's NOT separate. My god!

I never said that it was "the greatest player evaluations tool," but it is a tool. You have to know how to use the tools, so...obviously PFF guys should know how to do that.

They're explaining it, but they're still using stats, just within the context of their system. Damn, man.

You're full of it. Stats are fundamental to their system.

What are all these? Could they be stats? Coverage Metrics Several standard metrics are commonly used to evaluate players' effectiveness in pass coverage. These include passer rating allowed, yards allowed per coverage snap, completion percentage allowed and PFF's 0-100 coverage grade. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-advanced-coverage-grade?utm_source=chatgpt.com To say that PFF doesn't use stats in its grading is simply incorrect, period.

You're right, but they also use stats in the NFL per my last post, as you're so obviously trying to deny.

Pass-Blocking Stats PFF collects many stats that help define each block. https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-pass-protection?utm_source=chatgpt.com

https://www.pff.com/news/pff-fc-all-you-need-to-know-about-how-grades-are-calculated?utm_source=chatgpt.com To establish the expectation for each grade, PFF uses statistical models. These models learn what typically happens in a given scenario for each facet of play by using characteristics of the event as explanatory variables and the given play-by-play grade as the response variable.

No need to review data according to some. What is this "data" of which you speak? Could it be advanced statistics? Surely not!

Umanmielen's confidence obviously isn't going to be squashed by much of anything. He's come to play from day one.

PFF explicitly said that they use advanced statistics, but you're saying they don't, and I don't understand English. Like I said, @LinvilleGorgeyou just want to be contentious. Out of everything in the thread and me even talking about Icky despite PFF, that's what you hone in on. LOL

Is it yours?

I trust that we will. Dan wanta to be practical, but also is a realist. We paid Jaycee despite the injuries; we'll pay Icky despite his pass blocking imperfections, which mainly comes down to what I call "brain farts," a.k.a. inconsistencies. The only way I can't see is paying him is that if his play just falls off a cliff, and I don't think that's realistic. Even then we may him, just at a contract commensurate with his level of production. I'd prefer they get him his money before the season, that way we'll get better value, but who knows?

Honestly...I don't mind cockiness in an NFL player, even a young buck, but if you're going to be cocky, you damned sure better well bring the juice, even with the pads on.

I mean, what are we arguing about here? I don't think anyone at this point (at least I hope) thinks that Icky is dog sh¡t. Now is he a top five OT in the league? No. Is that going to stop him from being paid like one? Maybe not if the nature of the beast---the business of player contracts and their negotiations within the context of recent history---comes into play. I think that we can all agree that Icky leaves a lot to be desired in pass pro, but is a beast in run blocking. Some suspect that he may be better as an OG, but the fact is is that even average LTs are hard to come by. As long as we don't have an elite LT, the belief that one is in the draft (and transcends other needs), the patience to wait for one to emerge, or the money and willingness to buy one, Icky is our best option. I think that we can all see that, regardless of PFF, right?

And, for the record, PFF refers to its stats (and not just as a name): https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-premium-stats-highlighting-all-of-pffs-advanced-metrics-and-grades They don't grade "arbitrarily" either, they use their system.

No, I have read too many things from PFF over the years; PFF specifically said that they use advanced statistics, but that statistics don't tell the entire story, which is why they came up with their system. At this point you're just being adversarial for no reason. Stats play a big role in what they do.

You're correct (on its face). But PFF does indeed use advanced stats to come up with their grades. Not trying to turn this into a debate about PFF (at all because it's been done ad nauseum), but here is how PFF explains it: GRADES VS. STATS We aren’t grading players based on the yardage they rack up or the stats they collect. Statistics can be indicative of performance but don’t tell the whole story and can often lie badly. Quarterbacks can throw the ball straight to defenders but if the ball is dropped, you won't see it on the stat sheet. Conversely, they can dump the ball off on a sequence of screen passes and end up with a gaudy looking stat line if those skill position players do enough work after the catch. PFF grades the play, not its result, so the quarterback that throws the ball to defenders will be downgraded whether the defender catches the ball to notch the interception on the stat sheet or not. No amount of broken tackles and yards after the catch from a bubble screen will earn a quarterback a better grade, even though his passing stats may be getting padded. The same is true for most positions. Statistics can be misleading. A tackle whose quarterback gets the ball out of his hands quicker than anybody else may not give up many sacks, but he can still be beaten often and earn a poor grade. Receivers that are targeted relentlessly could post big-time numbers but may offer little more than the product of a volume-based aerial attack. https://www.pff.com/grades So PFF uses stats to come up with player grades and rankings.

Not even what that's about. Moreover, remember that search engines are a tool.

Knowing how a person is compared to everyone else is always better.

Ekwonu is not exactly dog sh¡t, and is actually in the top half at his position in pass pro, but he's close to middle of the pack. This gives a little more clarity. In my opinion, Icky is a sidenote, the bigger takeaway is that Princely basically says he's not gonna be stopped by anybody.

Well, you get the picture. https://catcrave.com/veteran-redemption-arc-stealing-show-panthers-training-camp-hunter-renfrow