-Game of Thrones-HBO-

[Porn Shop Clerk]

that would make tyrion one of the 3 heads of the dragon along with dany and jon snow

[Delhomeboy]

There are also some that believe that Jojen Reed is actually Howland, citing Jojen's maturity and wisdom for his age, and that the trip north is seemingly so hard on him.

There is also the interesting theory I read that Meera is Jon Snow's nonidentical twin sister via Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, brought back to the Neck after the incident at the Tower of Joy.

Howland was basically the only reason Eddard survived against Arthur Dayne, and some believe that Howland himself is a warg that was able to warg into Dayne to allow Eddard to beat him.

Jsquared, you must be a bigger fan than I could ever be because I don't know about half the stuff you're talking about, even after five books and the TV show and talking about it endlessly lol.

No but really, it's a testament of the power and complexity of this series that so much happens and there's so much backstory. That being said, I honestly don't know WTF you're talking about. I think--isn't Howland Reed the Lord of the Neck, right? And when and why did Eddard and Dayne fight?

[Porn Shop Clerk]

because dayne was guarding lyanna stark

if you read the books and don't understand that then its your fault

[Bronn]

Jsquared, you must be a bigger fan than I could ever be because I don't know about half the stuff you're talking about, even after five books and the TV show and talking about it endlessly lol.

No but really, it's a testament of the power and complexity of this series that so much happens and there's so much backstory. That being said, I honestly don't know WTF you're talking about. I think--isn't Howland Reed the Lord of the Neck, right? And when and why did Eddard and Dayne fight?

Howland Reed is indeed the Lord of Greywater Watch, on the Neck... He is (supposedly) Jojen and Meera Reed's dad, and sent them to Winterfell to aid Bran once he heard about Ned's death and Robb's departure. (Although some people suspect he had other motives for doing so, ones that were larger and with more foresight as to what all was to come... remember how Jojen has green dreams that foretell the future? Yeah, stuff like that)

Back during Robert's rebellion against the Targaryens, Rhaegar Targaryen kidnapped (and probably repeatedly raped) Lyanna Stark, Eddard's sister and Robert's love. He stashed her in the Tower of Joy, and there was a battle there in which Eddard's motives were to save his sister. Aerys Targaryen had some of his kingsguard there keeping her under tight wraps, so Eddard and his crew had to battle through them. The way the story goes was that Arthur Dayne (supposedly the greatest fighter to ever have lived) was the last man standing against Eddard and Howland, and if not for Howland (in Eddard's own words) the lord of Winterfell wouldn't have beat the Sword of the Morning (Dayne).

Ned found Lyanna dying, and she made him promise something, which remains unknown to the reader, but it is a theory that he had to promise to take care of her child(ren) that were a byproduct of Rhaegar's rapings. The speculation is that Jon Snow was that baby, and there is even further speculation that there was another baby (?Meera?) that Howland, the only other survivor at the Tower of Joy, took home to the Neck. Basically kinda like a Luke and Leia scenario...

Howland Reed is the only living person that knows what took place that day, and really the only person who knows where Jon Snow came from. He is a huge part of the story and, for all intents and purposes, has been mysteriously absent from the story thus far. This is also why some people suspect he is gallivanting somewhere as someone else (Jojen, Barristan Selmy, Jaqen H'ghar, etc. etc. etc.), and that he will be revealing himself in the coming books when the time is right.

[Bronn]

to be fair, a lot of the stuff I have learned on backstory, etc. have come from my need to know... that has driven me to ASOIAF forums, wikis, etc.

One read through in this series is not enough. You'd have to read it multiple times to catch all the little nuances that GRRM uses in his literary technique. That is what truly makes him a great author. The highly developed realm and backstory, as well as the tangled web of who's who...

I'd suggest that anyone who wants to read up on the theories, backstory, etc. go to the westeros.org forums, the ASOIAF wikis, etc. You can definitely learn a lot.

[Porn Shop Clerk]

rhaegar didn't rape lyanna. i'm pretty sure the sex was consensual. robert baratheon is the one that claims she was raped.

history written by the winners and all.

[Delhomeboy]

because dayne was guarding lyanna stark

if you read the books and don't understand that then its your fault

Come now, let's be honest, there's a LOT of stuff going in these books. It's like five volumes of War and Peace. :willy_nilly: Besides, that was meant to be a sarcastic comment. I though the Jimmy Clausen was the Huddle equivalent of a troll face.

Not to mention they're so engrossing that I may not read as "deeply" as need be because I'm dying to know what happened next; honestly, they probably need two reads. One to get the major plotlines, and a slower one to digest the intricacies. Fact is, GRRM is a master at this stuff, the perfect "backstory" writer, incorporating enough details to let you know what's going on if you pay enough attention, without stopping the story dead with ponderous amounts of past details.

But I think I've sorted it out now. Thanks for the help.

Edit: Damn, half what I said ninja'd by jsquared

[Porn Shop Clerk]

i skipped entire caitlyn chapters the first time i read the series

[Delhomeboy]

i skipped entire caitlyn chapters the first time i read the series

Yeah, she's a bit of a drag. And I still think she's the dumbest character in the books. Capturing Tyrion, letting SPOILERS: Jamie go Acutally, I consider this latter moment to be THE stupidest decision in any of the books. And this is a series where a kid king murders a noble purely for spite and starts a war because of it.

[Porn Shop Clerk]

one of the greatest moments also happens during one of her povs, the red wedding

[Porn Shop Clerk]

which brings me to my other theory

howland reed = lady stoneheart

[Bronn]

lol in a Silence of the Lambs-esque twist?

[Porn Shop Clerk]

would you do me? i'd do me.

[Bronn]

that's why she can only hiss and mumble... Howland forgot his dentures back in the Neck