Icebox

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About Icebox

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  1. Carolina Panthers select DT Vernon Butler

    Try reading before you comment. It might help the flow of the conversation. Usually, the way a conversation works is you respond to the message you are quoting. You quote me talking about the long-term value of this pick and/or long term implications, and then proceed to respond by talking about the short-term value. Something "does not compute," but it's not on my end, friend.
  2. Carolina Panthers select DT Vernon Butler

    Is it standard fare on the Huddle to call someone an idiot if you have no real argument?
  3. Carolina Panthers select DT Vernon Butler

    We apparently don't agree on terms. While we may rotate all of our D-linemen, Kawaan Short is not a "rotational player." Hell, he's a Pro Bowler. Starr played fewer snaps last year, but that was mostly because of injury. He is not a "rotational player." A "rotational player" is one that is rotated in place of your starters. But if you want to nitpick over terms, let's put it this way: If Vernon Butler is our third best DT in five years, this was not a good pick.
  4. Carolina Panthers select DT Vernon Butler

    If Butler is still just a rotational player in his 5th year in the league (as you are presuming), this was not a good draft pick. I think that goes without saying. So, once again, either this pick is wasted or (more likely) Kawaan is suiting up elsewhere next year. I think it is delusional to pretend otherwise.
  5. Carolina Panthers select DT Vernon Butler

    I don't think many people are upset with the talent we are getting with this pick. Butler is definitely a player, who could project to be a star. I think most people are upset with what this portends. It almost seems inevitable that - for this pick to have first round value - Gettleman will not sign Short to an extension.
  6. Carolina Panthers select DT Vernon Butler

    Maybe we trade Star for help elsewhere? If we do that, this pick might make some sense.
  7. Carolina Panthers select DT Vernon Butler

    This is a little different. Then, at a minimum, we needed depth at those positions. You typically expect your second round picks to be depth. We don't need depth at DT. In fact, our DT talent and depth were already the best in the league. I don't see how this guy sees much playing time this year. The only way he sees any next year is if we let Short walk.
  8. 2016 NFL DRAFT GENERAL CHATTER SUPER FUN TIME

    VH3 was a good pick for the Bucs... And realistically, the Bucs are probably our strongest competition in the NFCS for the foreseeable future.
  9. I agree. Of all the guys projected to be there at 30, Ogbah looks best. We should, however, temper expectations. People expecting him to come in and be a star as a rookie are probably in for a rude awakening. Even JJ Watt as a rookie only had 5 sacks.Ogbah is not going to improve our pass rush to such an extent that Bene starts playing like Josh Norman. That's just crazy. Ogbah - like anyone else we would take at 30 - is a long-term pick, not a short-term fix.
  10. An outlier among teams with the most cap space

    We wouldn't be in cap hell by allowing Norman to play out his one-year tender in 2016. The beauty of a franchise tag one-year tender is that it doesn'tdrag you down in future seasons. You aren't likely to get any other All-Pro quality talent on a one-year deal,exceptwith the franchise tag. The mental gymnastics being done tojustify this move would earn you guys an Olympic-gold-medal!
  11. An outlier among teams with the most cap space

    By the way, before anyone else decides to completely mischaracterize what I'm saying even more,I was completely in favor of letting Norman walk after this year. I agree that it isn't wise to invest the amount he was seeking in the corner slot, when we play mostly zone coverage. But what I am not in favor of is rescinding the tag on guy who really helps the team this year to save money we aren't going to spend elsewhere.
  12. An outlier among teams with the most cap space

    It seems like no one can even respond to what I'm saying without completely mischaracterizing it or resorting to tired cliches that don't even address the point. Money does buy talent in the NFL. Some teams make bad deals because they fail to evaluate talent properly, but that doesn't negate the point: a capitalistsystem, people with talent generally go where the most money is being offered. You can't pretend we're using the Josh Norman 2016cap spaceto extend Starr and Short, because you know we're not. One, we already had plenty of cap room to extend them. Two, it is doubtful that even if we extend them that they would getpay raises this year. Extending them and allowing Norman to play out the franchise tag tender are not mutually exclusive. (And let's be realistic. We won't even start conversations withStarr until next year at the earliest, since we've already exercised his fifth year option for 2017). We were already awash in cap room this offseason. It makes no sense not to let Norman play out his franchise tag contractthis year. Unquestionably, we will be a worse team in 2016because of this move. Complete headscratcher. It seems like Gettleman is more concerned with cutting costs than putting together a SB contender. I'm willing to wait to see if something actually does happen. But - unlike most on here - I'm not thrilled with the idea of having $30 million in cap room. It means nothingunless we actually plan to do something with it.
  13. An outlier among teams with the most cap space

    I think you guys are missing the point. A team is more likely to win if that team has more talent. Sure, there are other factors in play (system, coaching, scheduling, luck), but talent is one of the biggest determinants.We can all agree on that, right? Right now, we are very fortunate in that we have several players at undermarket rates, for a myriad of reasons. Cam and Luke arebargains because we had good timing. Short and Benjamin and several others are bargains because they are still on their rookie contracts. Oher and Coleman are bargains because they were successful reclamation projects.We can all agree on that, too, right? Well, right now, all that cap room we now have because of those undermarket contracts puts us in a position to have EVEN MORE talent this year. Call that a "window theory" if you want, but it is pretty self-evident, isn't it?Granted, you don't want to spend money for the sake of spending money. Granted, you don't want to take on a bunch of albatross contracts. But in this league, every team is talented. If you have the means to improve your team, you damn well better do it. It does us no good - no good whatsoever - to bank that $31 million in cap space and not use a good chunk ofit to upgrade the team. BTW, I don't disagree that we have a large window of success. But that window probably won't ever be as "open" as it is this coming year because of our flexibility to improve the talent on the field. And CTRcat, what - exactly - are we going to use that $14 million on, considering we have another $17 million on top of that we could have used?
  14. An outlier among teams with the most cap space

    I'm struggling to understand the point. Yeah, we are awash in cap space due to rookie contracts and under-market contracts with stars at key positions... But allthis extra cap room does us no good if we don't use it. This coming season is one of our best chances in franchise history to win the Super Bowl. I hope we don't squander that chance to save a few dimes.
  15. I think most here are hopeful of making a deep run in the playoffs, in which case we may be facing any WR corp in the league.