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Del Rio ran more Zone than Turgovac.


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#16 Kurb

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:28 AM

holy sh*t. two intelligent, reasonable, well though-out posts in a row. Must be a record.



As people calm, post improve ;)

#17 engine9

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:53 AM

In theory the softerzone allows the D-line longer to make a play. They never made plays.


I don't really subscribe to that theory. There were certainly blown assignments that plagued us at times, but our zone didn't seem to offer much in the line of sealing off coverage to buy the line any time. That could easily be chalked up to execution as well. Thing is, if it's constantly said that the line isn't doing it's job so we have to zone it, but the secondary isn't doing their job when we DO zone it, it's all being put on the players. If every single part of the defense has to be adjusted for because of their lack of talent or laziness or ineptitude in following the game plan, that loops right back around and points straight toward the staff.

#18 Kurb

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:55 AM

I don't really subscribe to that theory. There were certainly blown assignments that plagued us at times, but our zone didn't seem to offer much in the line of sealing off coverage to buy the line any time. That could easily be chalked up to execution as well. Thing is, if it's constantly said that the line isn't doing it's job so we have to zone it, but the secondary isn't doing their job when we DO zone it, it's all being put on the players. If every single part of the defense has to be adjusted for because of their lack of talent or laziness or ineptitude in following the game plan, that loops right back around and points straight toward the staff.


I'm not intending to throw the blame on the players and completely off the coaches.

Indeed if one thing doesn't work, CHANGE IT.

#19 ckad79

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:02 AM

Under Del Rio, guys showed more heart. I look at that team then and us now --- and it just isn't the same. Take away the schemes, take away the planning --- just guy's attitudes. It's not the same.

I don't know if Fox has gotten soft too or if it's all Turgocrap but the defense really isn't smash-mouth like they use to be.

#20 pantherclaw

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:22 AM

Buckner elborated on this yesterday in some discussion on a local radio show.

At first I was shocked, but as his rant continued it made more sense.


He said under DelRio the D-line knew they had to beat the man in from of them. Buck and Jinx had too or a guy named Shane Burton would come in and do it in their place. Pep and Ruck had too, or that cat named Al Wallace certainly would. He continued that after the first year or so under Turgo, that accountablitly started to reside, and a bit of complacency started to inch into the D-line because they knew he wouldn't replace the starters.

He said several times that Del-Rio ran a TON more soft zone schemes relying on the D-line making a play and Turgo does ALOT more blitzing and man2man. The difference being the D-line making plays for DelRio and not making plays for Turgovac.:eek:

Discuss...

Our d-line coach back then was Turgovac.

#21 Kurb

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:23 AM

Our d-line coach back then was Turgovac.


Excellent note.

#22 Urrymonster

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:24 AM

Under Del Rio, guys showed more heart. I look at that team then and us now --- and it just isn't the same. Take away the schemes, take away the planning --- just guy's attitudes. It's not the same.

I don't know if Fox has gotten soft too or if it's all Turgocrap but the defense really isn't smash-mouth like they use to be.


Did you think that the team showed heart in the first half of this season? They were fired up, making great plays, stuffing the leagues best backs and generally carrying the game for us.

Heart in my opinion is a term that is thrown around to describe many many things. Showing heart is making a stop when teams have pissed on you all day, putting in 100% even if the game is out of reach and going to work everyday and busting your ass in training. We have players that do that, so I am not 100% sure I agree that they 'showed more heart' under Del Rio.

Other people have elluded to my line of thinking. Depth. More importantly quality depth. That way you do not rely on one guy to be the man. Someone is not performing or is mentally not right, you can sub them out safe in the knowledge that the guy you are putting in is hungry and can perform.

I would suggest that it is not heart that our team lacks, but rather hunger to succeed. Starters who are entrenched for many years with no fear of losing their spots lose that sense of urgency. Look at Jenkins, they guy still played hard for us but is a different man at NYJ. Rucker & Pep both never had any worry about their jobs because we always filled their spots with developmental guys. This is why I loved the Brayton pick up. the guy was mis-used, labelled a bust but clearly still cares about the game and is very competitive. Put him in and he is going to bust his ass off trying to make plays. whilst I am not certain he is starter for years to come he would be great as our modern day Al Wallace.

Frankly losing Peppers means one thing. the DL starting slots are up for grabs, both Lewis and Lemo are not young and not world beaters. Therefore it is time to bring back that rotation where no guy is safe and everyone on the DL is playing for their space on the roster, not just a starrting position.

#23 Kevin Greene

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:28 AM

Football is emotion and attitude as much as Xs and Os. I think the fire is long gone in TRGOs defense.

#24 Urrymonster

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:37 AM

Football is emotion and attitude as much as Xs and Os. I think the fire is long gone in TRGOs defense.


So you feel players such as Beason, Davis, Brayton, Marshall and Harris have no emotion and attitude?

#25 rayzor

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:47 AM

I'm not intending to throw the blame on the players and completely off the coaches.

Indeed if one thing doesn't work, CHANGE IT.


if we don't have the players that can handle the scheme, find one that they can handle and then get their butts replaced with ones that can handle it.

if the line doesn't have the intelligence or talent, that's one thing. if they don't have the ability to apply the constant pressure that is another.

who do we have that is staying who can apply constant pressure?

i think kemo can in his own way. he can tie up a couple blockers easily and from what i remember he did that consistently. do you think the rest of the guys not named peppers could do it? if not who could?

#26 Brooklyn Bully

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:48 AM

Our d-line coach back then was Turgovac.


And he had both Del Rio and Fox over him. He didn't run the show, they did. Just like now, Fox approves anything he comes up with. It all boils down to Fox letting this team do what it does. It doesn't matter who comes UP with the bad idea...Fox ultimately let's it fly or tries to fix it himself.

If our talent on our D line is so bad, who has the responsibility of recognizing that and altering the game plan?


Fox.

#27 pantherclaw

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:51 AM

And he had both Del Rio and Fox over him. He didn't run the show, they did. Just like now, Fox approves anything he comes up with. It all boils down to Fox letting this team do what it does. It doesn't matter who comes UP with the bad idea...Fox ultimately let's it fly or tries to fix it himself.

You obviously didn't understand what I was saying.

Thanks for coming out and saying what you really feel, even though it had nothing to do with what I said.

#28 pantherclaw

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:54 AM

This last year, we had the worst d-line, talent wise, since John Fox has been our head coach.
Our talent was less across our starting line, and it was even less in our backups.

Most of us predicted it would affect our defense. I guess the majority of us chose to forget that when we were ranked 3rd in points allowed earlier this season.

It did eventually come back to bite us..especially when we lost our two DT's.

As a whole, I don't think our d-line has been as well coached, as they were when Turgovac was coaching the d-line(are we even spelling his name right? or do we even care to spell it right anymore? :lol:).

Not only do we need to get more talent on the d-line, but we need a solid coach, to push them to be their best.

#29 Kurb

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:56 AM

This last year, we had the worst d-line, talent wise, since John Fox has been our head coach.
Our talent was less across our starting line, and it was even less in our backups.

Most of us predicted it would affect our defense. I guess the majority of us chose to forget that when we were ranked 3rd in points allowed earlier this season.

It did eventually come back to bite us..especially when we lost our two DT's.


Yep the lack of depth led to a lack of good rotation, which led to our downfall.

#30 Mesmer

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:59 AM

Al Wallace, even though he's fallen off the face of the earth, was the best depth player we had on defense.


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