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Hurney and mortgaging the future...


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#1 rayzor

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:06 PM

I was looking at scott wright's blog at draftcountdown.com and he had a post about the panthers getting luck with the #1 overall pick. Pretty good read and talked about some of the other options, but there was one thing that he mentioned at the end of it that really stuck out to me...

Regardless of which direction the Panthers go in round one they have to make the pick count because they traded their second rounder, which may end up being #33 overall, to New England in a Draft Day deal to acquire Armanti Edwards. The same Armanti Edwards who has yet to catch a single pass this year. Whoops! Decisions like that are a big reason why Carolina is in such an precarious position and the franchise must learn to stop mortgaging the future for instant gratification, which has become all too common place in recent years.

now whether you are on the armanti edwards bandwagon or not, you have to admit that it hurt our draft prospects some this year by trading what happened to be a 33rd pick. Now it could be that edwards turns into what hurney hoped he would..the second coming of smitty. Still..thats close to a first round pick used on a project that you are transitioning from one position to another. an experiment. Thats a pretty risky move. Hindsight..right?

To me there is a bigger issue. It could be argued that in both years that he traded the following year's first rounder away it resulted in success. We got what could be considered an anchor at RT for years (if he can stay healthy.). The next year we got a rotational pass rusher and a really decent 3rd down RB in goodson.

We all know that hurney tried to move up in the draft to acquire clausen, only he couldn't pull off a trade. There are reports that he tried moving up as early as the late first or early second to get him, only there were no takers. I wonder how many of those teams are kicking themselves for not taking that trade now because it probably would have resulted in a first overall pick this year. What was hurney intending on using to trade up for clausen? Based on what he has done the previous two years you would have to believe that it would have been this years first.

Imo, that was too close of a call. Now i'm not of the belief that hurney is a horrible GM, I do think he takes too many risks in the draft with trades and it nearly bit us in the butt. One thing is clear to me, we aren't in win now mode. We are in team building mode. That requires a different mentality than what was used to acquire brown and otah. I hope that hurney saw the mistake that he almost made, or at least morrison and richardson did and they put him on a leash going into the next draft.

#2 DaCityKats

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:11 PM

deep.and true.

#3 Kevin Greene

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:17 PM

Otah cost us a high 1st, 2nd and 4th so that was a bad trade.
Armanti? Ugghh.
Having wanted Clausen so bad, wouldn't surprise me to see him fug up this years first and do something less than brilliant.

My God, can you imagine if he used this years #1 to trade up for Clausen? :puke:

Edited by Kevin Greene, 24 November 2010 - 10:20 PM.


#4 Cat'sGrowl

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:26 PM

The only pick Hurney tried to trade for last year was the 33rd.
I'd say he also didn't offer a 1st or it likely would've been gone.

#5 Brooklyn Bully

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:37 PM

I may be in the minority, but mortgaging for the future is stupid to me. This isn't college ball, where you can usher in freshmen, watch them grow, and a few years later have a dominant team. The NFL is about winning right now. You field the best team you possibly can while you groom your young players. Maybe in the past you could get away with pure rebuilding, but in this day and age of ticket prices, the media, advertising, and prime time games, you better come strong or not come at all. This organization needs to get its head out of its ass and put a winner on the field.

#6 rayzor

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:38 PM

otah made an immediate impact and did so for a couple years. if their goal was to "win now" then it had some success. that was an awful lot to give up for otah, though.

it's a dangerous territory to get into. that requires some massive trust in your scouting department. i don't care how good gregory is, it led to some very questionable moves. i do believe that there needs to be an element of risk involved, but you also need to be looking at the big picture and possible consquences (such as giving away a first overall.)

Otah cost us a high 1st, 2nd and 4th so that was a bad trade.
Armanti? Ugghh.
Having wanted Clausen so bad, wouldn't surprise me to see him fug up this years first and do something less than brilliant.

My God, can you imagine if he used this years #1 to trade up for Clausen? :puke:



#7 Kurb

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:39 PM

It's worth mention, as the team changed in level of talent and the mentality of his drafting changed. Again I am curious how much of our blame to Hurney is a shoot the messenger mentality.

Foxy has been in a win now mode for a couple years. Such thinking leads to taking risks to get the right "piece"

In 2007 had made GREAT moves. Beason/Kalil for Revis was a solid mood. Jarrett...who could predict that would happen, but it was a good pick at the time.

This years draft I think he goes back into building mode and away from this "gotta have player X" mentality.

If he doesn't I may burn the stadium down.

#8 rayzor

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:43 PM

The only pick Hurney tried to trade for last year was the 33rd.
I'd say he also didn't offer a 1st or it likely would've been gone.

the only one he succeeded in trading was our 2nd rounder that he probably thought would be a mid to late one instead of 1st pick in the 2nd round.

i never heard anything that said that he didn't try to trade next years first. i only heard that he tried moving up to the late first and early second. you don't do that with a 2nd rounder. hurney's track record suggests that he has no problem trading a first to get who he wants.

#9 Kevin Greene

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:45 PM

It's worth mention, as the team changed in level of talent and the mentality of his drafting changed. Again I am curious how much of our blame to Hurney is a shoot the messenger mentality.

Foxy has been in a win now mode for a couple years. Such thinking leads to taking risks to get the right "piece"

In 2007 had made GREAT moves. Beason/Kalil for Revis was a solid mood. Jarrett...who could predict that would happen, but it was a good pick at the time.

This years draft I think he goes back into building mode and away from this "gotta have player X" mentality.

If he doesn't I may burn the stadium down.


As part of that building mode it would be sweet to grab a 2nd somehow without trading out of the #1 slot.

Edited by Kevin Greene, 24 November 2010 - 10:49 PM.


#10 rayzor

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:47 PM

It's worth mention, as the team changed in level of talent and the mentality of his drafting changed. Again I am curious how much of our blame to Hurney is a shoot the messenger mentality.

Foxy has been in a win now mode for a couple years. Such thinking leads to taking risks to get the right "piece"

In 2007 had made GREAT moves. Beason/Kalil for Revis was a solid mood. Jarrett...who could predict that would happen, but it was a good pick at the time.

This years draft I think he goes back into building mode and away from this "gotta have player X" mentality.

If he doesn't I may burn the stadium down.

with the exception of drafting luck, i hope you're 100% right. fortunately, all he'll have to do to get luck is make a phone call.

he can save the wheeling and dealing to move clausen to another team and get us back in the 2nd round.

#11 scpanther22

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:50 PM

I think Hurney will get back in the 2nd round this year with a trade but the Armanti trade is looking very bad

Edited by scpanther22, 24 November 2010 - 10:55 PM.


#12 Kurb

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:52 PM

with the exception of drafting luck, i hope you're 100% right. fortunately, all he'll have to do to get luck is make a phone call.

he can save the wheeling and dealing to move clausen to another team and get us back in the 2nd round.

I expect the best we can hope for Clausen is a LATE LATE 2nd or a 3rd at best.
People could claim he is damaged goods at this point.
Better he plays tho, the most likely he has value, also more likely we do something other than draft FootballJesus2011

#13 Kurb

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:52 PM

I think Hurney will get back in the 2nd round this year with a trade but the Armanti trade is looking very bad right now.


If armanti is still not getting reps next season it was a horrible trade. Till then its a huge risk that hasn't panned out yet.

#14 rayzor

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 11:15 PM

I expect the best we can hope for Clausen is a LATE LATE 2nd or a 3rd at best.
People could claim he is damaged goods at this point.
Better he plays tho, the most likely he has value, also more likely we do something other than draft FootballJesus2011

i'm expecting that the best we could get for clausen by himself is a 4th maybe a 3rd rounder. i would package him up with a late round pick to move up into the 2nd.

we have too much youth as it is on this team. i would rather use the later round picks to trade for vet players to fill needs. not sure the new coach would approve of that, but to me it would be a better use of those picks.

#15 brandon_87

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    ooh wee mayne he dat deal

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 11:27 PM

In all honesty, I don't think it's Fox that needs to go, its Hurney and Davidson. Our players seem to rally behind Fox, its Hurney's fault for not bringing in the talent and Davidson's fault for not making use of the talent we have....


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