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Justify why Cam Newton isn't worth #1 overall?


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#316 TheRealDeal

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:13 PM

No I got the point about the Hawaii quarterbacks and said so. As for newton he can throw downfield very well. I would say his passing ability is better than Luck. Obvious his football knowledge isn't close but from a passing point of view, he is more physically talented which is the point in throwing downfield. As for his footwork and progressions, I didn't say he would be fine, I said he would need work but hasn't been in a system where that is stressed. Can he learn it? I would hope that whoever is prepping him for the combine works that quite a bit and teams that work him out challenge him in those areas. That is what the combine and personal workouts are for.

No doubt he is a project but his upside may very make him worth the number 1 pick. On the other hand he isn't the only guy out there if we even decide to go QB in the first which isn't guaranteed at all at this point.



I don't think he's even close to Luck when it comes to pure passing or throwing downfield.

The point of my posts wasn't to say he'll suck in the NFL. The point was to bring up points of discussion as to why he wouldn't be drafted #1 overall. He isn't a flawless player. In fact, I'd say he has more concerns going to the NFL right now than he does positives. He'd be a major risk at #1 for many reasons.

In the end, I don't think we end up taking a QB at all and I think Locker might get back into the top 2 QBs by the time everything is said and done.

#317 panthers55

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:16 PM


I came for a battle of wits but I can clearly see you are unarmed.


Interesting way of looking at it. I thought this was a message board to exchange ideas, learn about players and discuss points of view. I didn't realize it was a battle to win or lose complete with insults and attacks. I know it happens I just didn't think it was the point of the board.

This explains alot...............

#318 blackcatgrowl

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:18 PM

You honestly don't think that play was a designed roll out to the right and throwback left?

Answer that before I bother responding to anything else you are saying.


No, you answer me this question before we continue:

Does a coach who has taken his team to the BCS title game, won SEC championship in a dominant fashion, call in a pass play to throw against the grain, when they are down by a TD in the 4th quarter, sitting in the Red Zone, against a tough division opponent?

Anything but a no, and you're obviously on another football planet, because that defies all established norms of football sense to do so.

Also, look at his feet on the throw on 4th and 3. Just focus on his feet. If the words lazy and/or slow don't come to mind I don't know what does.


Ok, what about the other, oh, 10 plays in that drive. Like I said, you can look at a ONE pick from Tom Brady and say he has bad mechanics or makes bad reads. Your just f**king nitpicking at that point.

Answer those two questions before I respond to see if you are mentally capable of having this discussion with me.


Almost every point you've made is assumption and assertion. You're parading your take on him and his mechanics is correct and if no one agrees with you, then they don't know what they're talking about. I guess you're right, there isn't a point in continuing.

#319 TheRealDeal

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:20 PM

Interesting way of looking at it. I thought this was a message board to exchange ideas, learn about players and discuss points of view. I didn't realize it was a battle to win or lose complete with insults and attacks. I know it happens I just didn't think it was the point of the board.

This explains alot...............


There is plenty of room for opinions. When you tell me grass isn't green that's not an opinion. There are certain things to be wrong on. That wasn't aimed at you, you are having legit discussion. Blackcat is way off on his "opinions" and it's to the point where you can't discuss it.

#320 panthers55

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:22 PM

I don't think he's even close to Luck when it comes to pure passing or throwing downfield.

The point of my posts wasn't to say he'll suck in the NFL. The point was to bring up points of discussion as to why he wouldn't be drafted #1 overall. He isn't a flawless player. In fact, I'd say he has more concerns going to the NFL right now than he does positives. He'd be a major risk at #1 for many reasons.

In the end, I don't think we end up taking a QB at all and I think Locker might get back into the top 2 QBs by the time everything is said and done.


You are wrong IMO about Luck versus Newton from a physical point of view. What makes Luck special is his knowledge of the game and desire to be the best. He is not the best physical passer this year by far.

As for will Newton be a number 1 pick, that remains to be seen. I am going to keep my mind open to see what happens as each guy gets put under a microscope. It should make for an interesting time. At this point he hasn't even declared for the draft. I would hope you would keep an open mind as well although that doesn't seem your style. Way too much time left in my opinion to make absolute proclamations for or against at this juncture.

#321 blackcatgrowl

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:23 PM

There is plenty of room for opinions. When you tell me grass isn't green that's not an opinion. There are certain things to be wrong on. That wasn't aimed at you, you are having legit discussion. Blackcat is way off on his "opinions" and it's to the point where you can't discuss it.


Yeah, I'm so off, I've produced several highlight videos showing him playing in a dominant fashion against tough teams.

While all you've got is "Look, look, he didn't scramble fast enough for me on one play!"

#322 panthers55

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:24 PM

There is plenty of room for opinions. When you tell me grass isn't green that's not an opinion. There are certain things to be wrong on. That wasn't aimed at you, you are having legit discussion. Blackcat is way off on his "opinions" and it's to the point where you can't discuss it.


So is kentucky bluegrass- green or blue??? If Bermuda grass is brown in the winter and green in the summer- is it green or brown??

Is anything really certain???

#323 TheRealDeal

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:24 PM

No, you answer me this question before we continue:

Does a coach who has taken his team to the BCS title game, won SEC championship in a dominant fashion, call in a pass play to throw against the grain, when they are down by a TD in the 4th quarter, sitting in the Red Zone, against a tough division opponent?

Anything but a no, and you're obviously on another football planet, because that defies all established norms of football sense to do so.


That play is called all the time. It's a very common play at all levels of football. Like I said, see the TD pass Whitehurst threw in their play your way in game against St. Louis.



Ok, what about the other, oh, 10 plays in that drive. Like I said, you can look at a ONE pick from Tom Brady and say he has bad mechanics or makes bad reads. Your just f**king nitpicking at that point.


I wish I could look at the other plays on the drive but unfortunately that is the only one where he took a drop. The others he just caught it and threw it.

Almost every point you've made is assumption and assertion. You're parading your take on him and his mechanics is correct and if no one agrees with you, then they don't know what they're talking about. I guess you're right, there isn't a point in continuing.


You can't admit to the fact that the TD was a designed play with one read. That's not opinion, that is a fact.

#324 TheRealDeal

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:25 PM

So is kentucky bluegrass- green or blue??? If Bermuda grass is brown in the winter and green in the summer- is it green or brown??

Is anything really certain???


LOL you know what I mean. Maybe you don't. What is your take on that TD play? Was it designed that way?

#325 TheRealDeal

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:25 PM

Yeah, I'm so off, I've produced several highlight videos showing him playing in a dominant fashion against tough teams.

While all you've got is "Look, look, he didn't scramble fast enough for me on one play!"


I already admitted he dominated college football. That's not the point of the discussion.

#326 TheRealDeal

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:28 PM

You are wrong IMO about Luck versus Newton from a physical point of view. What makes Luck special is his knowledge of the game and desire to be the best. He is not the best physical passer this year by far.

As for will Newton be a number 1 pick, that remains to be seen. I am going to keep my mind open to see what happens as each guy gets put under a microscope. It should make for an interesting time. At this point he hasn't even declared for the draft. I would hope you would keep an open mind as well although that doesn't seem your style. Way too much time left in my opinion to make absolute proclamations for or against at this juncture.


I've already stated that those weren't necessarily my opinions of him and his future success in the NFL but those are concerns that any GM would/should have. You've even agreed that they need to be looked at very closely before making a determination so I don't get why you seem to be arguing. We both agree there are things that need to be looked at before now and the draft.

The OP assumes he's clearly the #1 pick in the draft. I think we both agree that there are reasons why this may not be true. That's all.

#327 blackcatgrowl

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:28 PM

You can't admit to the fact that the TD was a designed play with one read. That's not opinion, that is a fact.


No, the only FACT is that he faked a handoff, looked right, center, left, and threw against the grain. You say it isn't a read, but that's your opinion. That's not fact.

It's also a fact, that you don't know the play as it was called, and are assuming, by the results, that it was designed that way, and that Cam didn't make the play.

I already admitted he dominated college football. That's not the point of the discussion.


No, I get your point. He has questionable mechanics since he was a little sluggish on one snap.

Not really much to discuss after that.

Edited by blackcatgrowl, 07 January 2011 - 06:31 PM.


#328 panthers55

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:29 PM

LOL you know what I mean. Maybe you don't. What is your take on that TD play? Was it designed that way?


Honestly unless you are in huddle and know what play was called as well as whether the play was executed correctly, it is hard to be absolute on whether it was purely a designed play, was an improvisation or something else.

#329 TheRealDeal

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:30 PM

Honestly unless you are in huddle and know what play was called as well as whether the play was executed correctly, it is hard to be absolute on whether it was purely a designed play, was an improvisation or something else.


I asked what your take was. Do you think that play was designed for the tight end?

#330 TheRealDeal

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:32 PM

Please also tell me what you think the design of this play was.




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