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Chud is still the problem


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#1 Ruff

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:30 PM

He is.

His play calling is atrocious.

Look, i get it. I really do. You want to be this amazing offense and make yourself look like a true genius so that other teams will call about hiring you as a head coach. But, honestly, all you are doing is showing that you're inept at designing a real, pro-style offense.

With a chance to seal the game with 5ish minutes remaining, we run the ball on first down. Awesome, let the clock run some. Next play, shotgun pass for 30+ that is incomplete in the end zone. Okay, that was weird. What do you have for me on third down to pick up the 9+ yards remaining and help run out the clock? A three yard TE flats pass out of the shotgun.

Oh.

What's more, you are using Mike Tolbert as a FB and short yardage running back as well as a TE, and yet, he is not good at either of those things. Hell, he's not even average at any of those things. He's a giant marshmallow in a football helmet. (Thank you for putting Richie Brockel in in the late game, he's a much better run and pass blocker.)

I do admit that Chud is making progress at running a true pro-style offense. Today that was evident by the ~10 under center plays we ran. However, our offense doesn't have a true identity. Are we a vertical offense? Then why try and use the zone read? Are we a zone read offense? Then why not have better blocking TEs? Are we a power running offense? Then why try and throw the ball 40 yards on 2 and 9 with the clock running?

#2 Dex

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:31 PM

Chud wasn't the problem last year. He has the ability. Now shush and enjoy today muffintops.

#3 Guest_Bwood_*

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:32 PM

Yeah it's like he over thinks it or something.

Shula should take over the O.

#4 YoungPanthers89

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:32 PM

Yeah we get need to cut down on the read option even more especially on the 3rd and shorts

#5 PhillyB

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:33 PM

the trouble with conjecture like this is that it doesn't (and cannot) take into account the dynamic between play call and play execution. that 30-yard attempt at the endzone - was that the playcall, or was the playcall "hit whatever route is open" and that happened to be the one cam took? the same could be said of the 3-yard completion to the tight end. somehow i doubt chudz flipped furiously to the "three yard gain to a tight end" section of the route tree and called that exact outcome.

#6 Baby Andy Reid

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:34 PM

80 yard catch and slow jog by edwards. And then WILDCAT!!!!! Da fug chud?

#7 Davis83

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:35 PM

The only thing holding this offense back is Chud - absolutely! We ran the ball pretty strong on the drive that D-Will scored on - but then never came back to any of those run plays later in the game?

We always seem to start out in a pro set, but after the 1st qtr we end up in a shotgun pretty much every play?

Cam is a threat on any bootleg - did it again today, but we never can seem to "find" that play in a crucial time of the game like late in the 4th to extend a drive?

I just don't get it.

#8 beastson

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:37 PM

Like I said before, Stew not getting enough carries. His playcalling alone is what keeps me not excited about making a 2004 run

Stew should be the one rushing for 1,000 yards this season. Pisses me off

#9 Ruff

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:38 PM

the trouble with conjecture like this is that it doesn't (and cannot) take into account the dynamic between play call and play execution. that 30-yard attempt at the endzone - was that the playcall, or was the playcall "hit whatever route is open" and that happened to be the one cam took? the same could be said of the 3-yard completion to the tight end. somehow i doubt chudz flipped furiously to the "three yard gain to a tight end" section of the route tree and called that exact outcome.


And I agree, I really do.

But, here's my problem with that whole scenario. Why even call a pass on 2nd down? You have $75m running backs, a blocking TE in Hartsock, and a dude who you think might be your FB in Tolbert (even though I'm pretty sure Tolbert sucks). Why not power it for another 3-4 yards? Then 3-4 more? That's over 80 seconds of the clock that is constantly running.

I think there is a disconnect in the game situations with Chud. He's all go, all the time, same play calls no matter if we're winning or losing by 1 or by 75, he's calling the same offense. I don't think he can actually call plays for specific points in the game.

We did enough to win today, I know, and I'm super happy about it.

But I honestly believe that Chud is hindering Cam's, and the rest of the offense's, ability to grow.

Am I saying we need to play Foxball and use punts as "good plays"? Lord no. But, we don't have to go to the exact opposite end of the spectrum either.

#10 La Pantera

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:39 PM

Yeah we get need to cut down on the read option even more especially on the 3rd and shorts


Honestly, we should do it more like the deadskins (atleast on that one drive). Their playcalling in that area looka to be more diverse.

#11 GRWatcher

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:41 PM

Cam is a threat on any bootleg - did it again today, but we never can seem to "find" that play in a crucial time of the game like late in the 4th to extend a drive?

I just don't get it.

We did in Atlanta and it didn't work because of execution. The fumble, remember?

IMO you need to stop looking at the play calling separately in each game and look at it as a whole, all season so far.

#12 2jakefansinva

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:44 PM

The only thing holding this offense back is Chud - absolutely! We ran the ball pretty strong on the drive that D-Will scored on - but then never came back to any of those run plays later in the game?

We always seem to start out in a pro set, but after the 1st qtr we end up in a shotgun pretty much every play?

Cam is a threat on any bootleg - did it again today, but we never can seem to "find" that play in a crucial time of the game like late in the 4th to extend a drive?

I just don't get it.


blows my mind. It's like he goes brain dead.

#13 Ruff

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:44 PM

We did in Atlanta and it didn't work because of execution. The fumble, remember?

IMO you need to stop looking at the play calling separately in each game and look at it as a whole, all season so far.


That's what I'm trying to do.

And the one constant of all of it has been the terrible playcalling and lack of identity.

"My QB's throwing hand is bleeding every where? Chuck it three times!"

"QB just completed an 82 yard pass to Armanti? Pull Armanti, WILDCAT!"

It's things like these that boggle my mind. Are we a college offense? If we are, the Redskins showed us today what a college offense looks like in the NFL. Are we an Air Coryell offense? We're averaging ~19 ppg.

#14 GRWatcher

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

That's what I'm trying to do.

And the one constant of all of it has been the terrible playcalling and lack of identity.

"My QB's throwing hand is bleeding every where? Chuck it three times!"

"QB just completed an 82 yard pass to Armanti? Pull Armanti, WILDCAT!"

It's things like these that boggle my mind. Are we a college offense? If we are, the Redskins showed us today what a college offense looks like in the NFL. Are we an Air Coryell offense? We're averaging ~19 ppg.

I simply answered your question. If that's what you're trying to do, then please don't ask a question that isn't relavent.

(1) I'm sure Cam said with a nod to Shula that his thumb was okay, don't worry about it. He would've called time out if it was a problem. Gotta' treat the man like an adult after all. It was a thumb injury and those always bleed more than they hurt, even paper cuts.

(2) Surprise is the centerpeice of every play. Give the defense what they're not expecting. And IMO that's what they were trying to do with the wildcat. I'm not even sure that Armanti wasn't on the field with that wildcat. I haven't gone back and watched it yet.

If you stop trying so hard to pigeonhole our offense, you just might enjoy the win more. Just sayin'.

#15 Ruff

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:01 PM

I simply answered your question. If that's what you're trying to do, then please don't ask a question that isn't relavent.

(1) I'm sure Cam said with a nod to Shula that his thumb was okay, don't worry about it. He would've called time out if it was a problem. Gotta' treat the man like an adult after all. It was a thumb injury and those always bleed more than they hurt, even paper cuts.

(2) Surprise is the centerpeice of every play. Give the defense what they're not expecting. And IMO that's what they were trying to do with the wildcat. I'm not even sure that Armanti wasn't on the field with that wildcat. I haven't gone back and watched it yet.

If you stop trying so hard to pigeonhole our offense, you just might enjoy the win more. Just sayin'.


Armanti wasn't on the play, came off the field after the pass. (I assume he was exhausted), but that's not the big deal. Why not put the ball into your QB's hands, who just had a huge pass, and let him try to do what he does.

Also, surprise? Is the Wildcat really a surprise anymore? "Oh hey, DeAngelo's behind center. HE MOST CERTAINLY ISN'T GOING TO RUN STRAIGHT AHEAD". I don't mean to sound condescending, but the Wildcat isn't surprising anyone anymore.

And maybe if more people would try to improve, even when we win, then winning would become the norm. Just because we won another game doesn't mean Chud, or Rivera, or McDermott, or anyone else gets off the hook. It means we're 2-6 with lots of room to get better.

Accepting a win and saying to "just anything the win more" isn't going to create a winning environment. Saying things like "our offense needs to improve because we don't have an identity" or "our special teams play is incredibly poor" is going to improve the team, especially when members of the media start mentioning it and asking the coaching staff/players about it.

We as Panthers fans don't need to accept one win.


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