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#13 2jakefansinva

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:39 AM

i think we took a dive after that 'zona playoff game. that's when the momentum downhill started. we never made a climb after that. thanks, "it is what it is".

2010 was inevitable and had to happen for us to go forward. we just didn't do enough to get us pushed back up the hill.

replacing hurney would probably have helped (depending on who we got to replace him). firing fox after the '09 season would have helped rather than creating a lame duck year. that was bad on JR's part...but i can understand him 1) not wanting to pay for 2 coaching staffs and 2) not thinking that fox would tank the season.

i look at it the same way i did with kasay and jake.

it was time for jake to move on. we just replaced him with the wrong QB(s). neither moore or clausen were the guys we needed.
it was time for kasay to move on. we just replaced him with the wrong kicker (mare).

it was time for fox to move on. apparently we replaced him with the wrong guy.

i think we finally got it right in QB and hope we did with the kicker.

hopefully we get it right with the next GM and HC hire.

getting things turned around is all depending on the tone set by the new guys coming in.


agree with everything except.......... I think we have the right HC.

#14 mwright350

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:50 AM

I think our momentum took a decent positive turn at the end of last year and it was harmed again the first half of this year but it has been overall negative since we tanked 2010.

Momentum is the biggest reason I hope our guys keep playing hard and win some games to close out the year - draft position be damned. I hope we carry something positive into the next season under a new GM (probably new coach or at least new team philosophy?).

#15 Peppers90 NC

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:39 AM

whatever the opposite of preparing for a lockout would be

#16 rayzor

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:50 AM

agree with everything except.......... I think we have the right HC.

depends on what he does with the rest of the season.

gonna have to be a drastic turnaround, imo. these team will have to flat out dominate the rest of the year for him to save his job cause right now he's got to show he's worth keeping to a new GM.

new GM may want to bring his own HC in or someone more in line with his thinking and team building philosophy. the new GM will also want to put his own stamp on it. rivera would have to blow the new GM away for him to keep his job. i just have very little confidence in him being able to do it.

we made a mistake last time not changing the GM when we changed the HC. i don't want us to make another mistake and not being able to start with a truly clean slate.

#17 2jakefansinva

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:01 AM

depends on what he does with the rest of the season.

gonna have to be a drastic turnaround, imo. these team will have to flat out dominate the rest of the year for him to save his job cause right now he's got to show he's worth keeping to a new GM.

new GM may want to bring his own HC in or someone more in line with his thinking and team building philosophy. the new GM will also want to put his own stamp on it. rivera would have to blow the new GM away for him to keep his job. i just have very little confidence in him being able to do it.

we made a mistake last time not changing the GM when we changed the HC. i don't want us to make another mistake and not being able to start with a truly clean slate.


that's fine, we can agree to disagree.

I just don't think RR has been given a fair shake.

and.........rebuilding takes a little time.

#18 Rubi

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:06 AM

I tend to think in military terms about things like this. If I am a commander and I have evidence a massive attack is imminent and I know I do not have the resources to counter it, I pull in my overextended command to weather the onslaught until I can get reinforcements. JR knew there was going to be a reckoning with the NFLPA, and so he did his best to conserve his resources and ride it out. Once it was over he took steps to preserve his core troops, and brought in reinforcements to augment them. Based on the information given him by his field commanders (Hurney, Rivera, etc.), he acted accordingly and gave them pretty much whatever they asked for. Remember the splash he made when he finally did open his checkbook? But just like in Korea, when US and ROK troops were pinned in around Pusan, it takes time to fight your way out. Momentum is something that builds slowly but sooner or later reaches a level that makes it all but unstoppable. I have hopes that eventually we'll see that with the Panthers.


Maximus ! Maximus ! Maximus !

#19 Rubi

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:09 AM

that's fine, we can agree to disagree.

I just don't think RR has been given a fair shake.

and.........rebuilding takes a little time.


There's a reason we have a penalty every game for too many men on the field. There's a reason the read option was an epic failure. There's a reason why our top 5 offense is poo...

Hint - Coaching staff

Time for the entire staff...and scouting department to go in my opinion. New GM, new scouting dept, new coaching staff....they all go hand in hand...that's how it has to be done this offseason. All phases of the organization on the same page. Not overpaying your backfield and then not use them...crazy

#20 MHS831

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:13 AM

Momentum: The product of the mass and velocity of an object.

p=mv

What would you say was the momentum of the Panthers in 2010 when JR purposely tanked the season? An entire football franchise moving downward at a high velocity.

Should we expect for that momentum to be broken any time soon? Are we still moving down at a slower rate, waiting for it to stop and head back up?

What say you?

I rread this to see what a few of these sholars had to say about physics.

#21 rayzor

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:14 AM

that's fine, we can agree to disagree.

I just don't think RR has been given a fair shake.

and.........rebuilding takes a little time.

There's a reason we have a penalty every game for too many men on the field. There's a reason the read option was an epic failure. There's a reason why our top 5 offense is poo...

Hint - Coaching staff

Time for the entire staff...and scouting department to go in my opinion. New GM, new scouting dept, new coaching staff....they all go hand in hand...that's how it has to be done this offseason. All phases of the organization on the same page. Not overpaying your backfield and then not use them...crazy

agreed with rubi.

rivera had a pass last year. brand new to the job of HC. no offseason. had to learn how to manage games and his team AND his coaching staff.

i haven't really seen an improvement or at least enough of one to this point to warrant me wanting to spend much more time allowing him to improve.

his growth is coming at a snails pace and i have yet to see any reason to think he could be dominant as a coach/manager/leader.

#22 Kevin Greene

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:36 AM

Momentum?
JR promised us a Lombardi in 10 years. 2010 proved he never meant that.
Momentum will go up with new ownership or a hands off approach from Richardson.

#23 carolinarolls

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:49 AM

  • 9.8 meters per second is as fast as anything can fall. Even starting Jeremy Brides won't change that.


#24 Marguide

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:56 AM

agreed with rubi.

rivera had a pass last year. brand new to the job of HC. no offseason. had to learn how to manage games and his team AND his coaching staff.

i haven't really seen an improvement or at least enough of one to this point to warrant me wanting to spend much more time allowing him to improve.

his growth is coming at a snails pace and i have yet to see any reason to think he could be dominant as a coach/manager/leader.


I still think back to last year and what I found to be a telling moment for Rivera. It had nothing to do with calling inappropriate timeouts or his demeanor on the sideline and largely went unnoticed.

Last game of the year against the Saints. 4th quarter, and we're down by 3 scores with maybe 8-10 minutes left on the clock. Yeah, the game is almost certainly out of reach, but I've seen teams come back from a 3 score deficit a number of times with say 5 to 8 minutes left on the clock.

We had the ball on the Saints side of the field. Around the 37 or 40 if I remember correctly. It's 4th and manageable. Rivera punts.

That incident cannot be characterized as anything other than a coach giving up. That there was no reason to continue fighting. That it was time to take our lumps and go home.

Now, let's compare and contrast. Remember when Greg Schiano took a lot of heat for his guys trying to disrupt a kneel down play? If it accomplished nothing else, his players got the message that the coach was going to fight until the final whistle sounded, so they had better do the same.

Looking at those 2 contrasting styles, which type of coach would you bust your ass for?