48 replies to this topic

[rodeo]

Since they're both on the Tinderbox front page it's hard to not make the comparison.

This morning kind of sheds light on the argument that "if there were no guns, people would find a way! They'd kill each other with knives or spears!"

Two rampages on the same morning. About 30 kids attacked at schools.

Man using a gun: 22-30 dead.
Man using a knife: 0 dead

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ack-school.html
http://www.cbsnews.c...chool-shooting/

[Cat]

But but guns don't kill people, well by that logic neither do missiles so they should be legal too.

Idk the answer but we need to figure something out because these mass shootings are happening more frequently. I may be mistaken but I think I read murders are down, mass shootings are up.

[Growl]

I don't frequent the tinderbox often, but it's really hard to see weapons as the core issue here. To me there is something rooted much deeper the way our society works in 2012 than the way it once did.

What it is? Well you could speculate on a ton of different things, but weapons have been around in the US for a while, and this problem is getting worse.

I think trying control weaponry of any kind is just the easy way out to a darker deep seeded issue that is manifesting itself in many more ways than just these mass killings. Bullying, for instance, among many other things, can be found to be birthed out of a pretty similar attitude to the killers in these tragedies have, and that's just one example.

[Growl]

All in all I'm saying weapon restriction is the lazy way of dealing with an issue that has caused many more problems than just weapon related ones.

It sure as heck doesn't lop the head off the hydra.

[Delhommey]

I don't understand the defeatist attitude. Just because we can't eradicate events like today doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything in our power to limit them happening.

[rodeo]

Yeah. It is a cumulative problem, but that doesn't mean we should say "Well there's more than 1 issue so do nothing about any of them."

At the very least, it's worth acknowledging that the thing all of these mass murderers have in common is that it was way too easy for them to kill dozens of people.

How can we make it harder?

[natty]

I don't frequent the tinderbox often, but it's really hard to see weapons as the core issue here. To me there is something rooted much deeper the way our society works in 2012 than the way it once did.

What it is? Well you could speculate on a ton of different things, but weapons have been around in the US for a while, and this problem is getting worse.

I think trying control weaponry of any kind is just the easy way out to a darker deep seeded issue that is manifesting itself in many more ways than just these mass killings. Bullying, for instance, among many other things, can be found to be birthed out of a pretty similar attitude to the killers in these tragedies have, and that's just one example.

Actually it's not getting worse. I heard an interview on the way home with a psychologist that said mass murders are about the same as they've always been. I haven't confirmed that with any kind of data but he seemed to be a reputable source.

What has changed is the media coverage and the amount of people dying per incident.

[cookinwithgas]

Dying per incident is the operative phrase here.

[Delhommey]

If the school collapsed and killed 30 kids, we'd look into everything involving school construction, have 200 congressional inquiries on the building of schools, etc

30 kids get shot by a maniac? What a tragedy. Guess that's just America, nowadays. Aw shucks.

Want to start to reduce firearms in America? Require licensing and registration on them every year, just like a car. Heck, require liability insurance on those bad boys and watch the magic of the free market at work.

[rodeo]

If the school collapsed and killed 30 kids, we'd look into everything involving school construction, have 200 congressional inquiries on the building of schools, etc

30 kids get shot by a maniac? What a tragedy. Guess that's just America, nowadays. Aw shucks.

Want to start to reduce firearms in America? Require licensing and registration on them every year, just like a car. Heck, require liability insurance on those bad boys and watch the magic of the free market at work.

Both good ideas. Liability insurance, especially.

Liability for life, even in the event of theft. If you're going to have a mass murder instrument, it's time to take personal responsibility for it, and that doesn't stop because you didn't secure it well enough and someone took it.

[Kurb]

We rush for something to blame, as long as it isn't the batshit crazy person who committed the crime.

[gospodin shuttlesworth]

definitely not a problem that all of these "batshit crazy people" keep ending up with guns and killing dozens of people at a time

[NanuqoftheNorth]

If the school collapsed and killed 30 kids, we'd look into everything involving school construction, have 200 congressional inquiries on the building of schools, etc

30 kids get shot by a maniac? What a tragedy. Guess that's just America, nowadays. Aw shucks.

Want to start to reduce firearms in America? Require licensing and registration on them every year, just like a car. Heck, require liability insurance on those bad boys and watch the magic of the free market at work.

This.

For all the "get the government out of my life" and "I hate the ACA" people this should be a no brainer. Let the free market address the billions in dollars in death and destruction caused every year by firearms.

For instance the Oregon Mall Killer and the Sandy Hook Killer both stole/took their weapons from legal owners. Had the legal owners been required to purchase insurance to cover the cost of any death or destruction caused by their weapons (instead of the evil local, state or federal government) you can bet the private insurance industry would require gun locks, gun safes, and eventually smart guns that would only work for their authorized owners.

As insurance costs associated with unsecured or unaccounted for guns continued to grow, so would the public mandate for accountability.

[Proudiddy]

My problem is, look at the country where the stabbing happened.

I'm not familiar with Chinese gun laws but from knowing how they handle their business in other facets, I imagine they're very strict and the general public doesn't have much if any access to them.

I think of things like Tiannamen Square, their numerous human rights issues, and don't they also control how many children you are allowed to have? Things like that...

There is something to giving up the right to bear arms and then losing other rights as a result. I'm convinced of it. So, it's a hard line to walk. I don't know the solution. I'm convinced if we ban guns that the gov't will impose in various other ways and strip more rights as a result. But, we can't keep allowing guns to be so easily accessible to mentally ill maniacs either.

And the assault rifle argument doesn't even apply here... there is no need for assault weapons among our citizens, but today's incident didn't even involve any... So what do we do? I don't know.