94 replies to this topic

[pstall]

So the question is. Is this really about making things fair and creating equal access or righting generational wrongs with similar institutional methodology?
Two wrongs don't make a right.

I do think it can be tweaked to improve the success rate. Too much status quo when it comes to race or God forbid a whiter person is the one starting a conversation about it.

[stirs]

Distribute scholarships based on population percentages.

If half the population is white, then half go there, 8% Asian? then 8% go there. And on down the line.

This might not be perfect, but would give a representative number in each ethnicity the same shot at a scholarship.

Probably not the best way overall to do it, but could can some of the finger pointing.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

The ultimate goal should be to eliminate all racially based preferences for a merit based system of selection. Unfortunately, if the last four years are any indication, we still have several generations to go before a merit based system will be a viable alternative.

[stirs]

The ultimate goal should be to eliminate all racially based preferences for a merit based system of selection. Unfortunately, if the last four years are any indication, we still have several generations to go before a merit based system will be a viable alternative.

how would a merit based system work? I ask because there are many versions

[Happy Panther]

It's all a question of opportunity. Most agree that it would be great if everyone had the same opportunity at birth and then all success or failure would be directly related to ability and hard work. Because of the increasing chasm between rich and poor, opportunity is shrinking every year for the poor.

So what is the right way to level the field a little? As a libertarian I am required to say that the welfare system is broken but I am not sure what the viable alternative is.

[Delhommey]

Why do you think conservatives are suddenly all about fairness?

I'll default to good ol' Occam's Razor on that one.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

how would a merit based system work? I ask because there are many versions

The devil is in the details! As you say there are numerous ways to approach the issue. I would definitely leave the development of a merit based selection system to trained professionals not partisan political hacks (like myself). However, I would expect that it would not be radically different from ones most of us are familiar with. A mixture of academic testing and a resume submitted to a board for review. The amount of weight given to each area would be critical to the selection process and would likely vary with the degree being pursued. As a minimum, I would require numeric designators for each candidate to eliminate any potential for discrimination. Information such as name, age, gender ethnic and racial background would be redacted from any documentation reviewed by the selection committee. The committee would also need to be independent, anonymous and cloistered to the maximum extent possible during the review process to prevent tampering. The committee would not communicate as a group or even know who the other members of the board were, at least not initially. If they met as a group, it would only be during the final stages of the selection process, after the majority of candidates had been eliminated, and only if needed to hash out any extremely close final candidate selections. Committee members could be selected from a diverse cross section of esteemed alumni. Minimum of 5 committee members, highest and lowest score would be discarded for each candidate. Head of board would receive all board member inputs. They would forward results to Chancellor's office for final verification and approval. I am sure there is much more to be considered, but this would be a starting point.

[Kurb]

"heh calm rational discussion? in this forum? HEH GOOD LUCK WITH THAT

now let me set up this false dichotomy and try not to vomit out thinly veiled racist poo this time"

If you can't post in this discussion without acting like a fuging fool then stop posting in it.

[g5jamz]

Depends on who/what is issuing the scholarships.

Private group? They can do anything they want. Some sort of public scholarships? Don't discriminate. As far as the disproportionate issuance of scholarships (and I know that's not what the OP is about but someone brought this up) go, if race isn't a contributing factor and it is solely based on scholastic achievement....maybe that's a factor into why minorities receive so much less? What do academic accomplishment numbers look like contrasted to scholarship qualifying.

I said at the beginning private groups can do what they want, but I loathe anyone/any group that uses race as some qualifier to someone getting a scholarship or not. Our church gives out scholarships, and if one if our minority members qualified...I'd be estatic upon their receiving of it BASED on their scholastic achievements. Not because he/she is hispanic or black.

[Panthro]

Colleges and Universities charge too much but this is a completely different discussion.

Scholarships should be based on a combination of race, demographics, and more importantly income levels.

[stirs]

The devil is in the details! As you say there are numerous ways to approach the issue. I would definitely leave the development of a merit based selection system to trained professionals not partisan political hacks (like myself). However, I would expect that it would not be radically different from ones most of us are familiar with. A mixture of academic testing and a resume submitted to a board for review. The amount of weight given to each area would be critical to the selection process and would likely vary with the degree being pursued. As a minimum, I would require numeric designators for each candidate to eliminate any potential for discrimination. Information such as name, age, gender ethnic and racial background would be redacted from any documentation reviewed by the selection committee. The committee would also need to be independent, anonymous and cloistered to the maximum extent possible during the review process to prevent tampering. The committee would not communicate as a group or even know who the other members of the board were, at least not initially. If they met as a group, it would only be during the final stages of the selection process, after the majority of candidates had been eliminated, and only if needed to hash out any extremely close final candidate selections. Committee members could be selected from a diverse cross section of esteemed alumni. Minimum of 5 committee members, highest and lowest score would be discarded for each candidate. Head of board would receive all board member inputs. They would forward results to Chancellor's office for final verification and approval. I am sure there is much more to be considered, but this would be a starting point.

I guess my point earlier was that a merit only system could be one in which Asians took home the bulk of the scholarships. One school of thought would be that if they scored the highest, then fine, they deserve it.

As many discussions here have proven, Asians have a very good family unit demographic and therefore school and work ethic are more of a common denominator.

Under a pure merit system, others might not have a high percentage and therefore spiral into the racially charged atmosphere and lawsuits. I was just saying that if Asians for example are 8% of the population, then a set percent of Asians based on their merit will get scholarships.

This is one way to divide scholarships so that each group gets a chance and within the group, can still be rewarded for their efforts. Not totally fair mind you, but then nothing will ever be Utopian about the whole thing.

[Panthro]

academic scholarships should be about rewarding those who are interested in pursuing higher education but cannot afford it.

If you are a valedictorian and you parents make $500k you are not eligible for an academic scholarship...regardless of race.

[stirs]

academic scholarships should be about rewarding those who are interested in pursuing higher education but cannot afford it.

If you are a valedictorian and you parents make $500k you are not eligible for an academic scholarship...regardless of race.

This is why there are lawsuits. Should not be called academic scholarship if based soley on cash flow.

If you take college scholarships as only a social tool, then I suppose there are poor whites, blacks and so on. You still have the same situation. They cannot go only to poor minorities but all poor.

[Delhommey]

academic scholarships should be about rewarding those who are interested in pursuing higher education but cannot afford it.

If you are a valedictorian and you parents make $500k you are not eligible for an academic scholarship...regardless of race.

I'm biased cause I got one (my parents certainly didn't make 500K, but we weren't high need by any stretch), but some states like SC need to fight to keep smart kids in state and prevent massive brain drain.

[Kevin Greene]

academic scholarships should be about rewarding those who are interested in pursuing higher education but cannot afford it.

If you are a valedictorian and you parents make $500k you are not eligible for an academic scholarship...regardless of race.

Where do you draw the line?
If your parents make 25k, 50k, 100k, 150, 200k?
We all know how much a college ed costs.