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If It Wasn't Clear That We Need Offensive Line Help (OTL Stat)


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#16 panthers55

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:29 PM

Did he run more than RG3 and Wilson? Nope. Yet, he was slammed and sacked more than those two. Decent job? Get your eyes fixed. That core had a subpar performance for most of the year. Not only could they not protect Cam by acceptable standards, they struggled to open running lanes for our RBs too. Is that a coincidence? Again, NO.

Does Cam hold onto the ball too long sometimes? Yes, but only because our receiving options couldn't get open nearly enough. That said, there's no excuse for O-Line to have breakdowns like we had last year. Granted, injuries set this core back but we weren't having a stellar year before injuries set us back.

Why was he sacked more than RG3 and Wilson?  Might be they play in a West Coast Offense which relies on quick passes and getting the ball out before the defense can get there.  He holds the ball because he is looking for the big play not because of the receivers.  Do you really think the difference between him dumping the ball more in the second half of the year was receivers suddenly getting open or was it because Cam started taking what was being offered by the defense and being smarter and more mature as the year went on.



#17 Promethean Forerunner

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:34 PM

Why was he sacked more than RG3 and Wilson? Might be they play in a West Coast Offense which relies on quick passes and getting the ball out before the defense can get there. He holds the ball because he is looking for the big play not because of the receivers. Do you really think the difference between him dumping the ball more in the second half of the year was receivers suddenly getting open or was it because Cam started taking what was being offered by the defense and being smarter and more mature as the year went on.


Smarter and more mature? It was the same goddamn Cam Newton from 2011 that was making those plays. The key difference was the coaching/playcalling down the stretch. For the love of god, Newton wasn't allowed to audible at the LOS until the MNF game.

#18 panthers55

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:44 PM

Are you comparing our O-Line to Brees' and Brady's? Horrible comparison. Just stop right there.

The point is that their offensive line gets way too much credit because Brees and Brady get the ball out quicker and are in offenses which value quick timing throws.  No one is saying our line is great but they are also at a disadvantage when their quarterback holds the ball just like Roethlisburger.

If their line was so much better it would show in the run stats as well.  Notice that our line averaged 4,5 yards a run or 8th on the list,.  New Orleans averaged 4.3 yards per rush good for 12 on the list.  New England was 14th on the list at 4.2.

 

Football outsiders lists us number 1 in power blocking last year.  Due to the read option we were also 26th in getting stuffed.  Pass protection rankings are always about sacks and nothing else. Truth is that at least half of his sacks were attempts to run or hold the ball to make big plays instead of throwing it away or dumping it off.

 

Injuries were the problem plain and simple.  Didn't help we started a rookie at left guard either.



#19 panthers55

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:48 PM

Smarter and more mature? It was the same goddamn Cam Newton from 2011 that was making those plays. The key difference was the coaching/playcalling down the stretch. For the love of god, Newton wasn't allowed to audible at the LOS until the MNF game.

You don't need to audiblize to dump off the ball or go with a hot read.  There is a checkdown guy on most every play if they don't go max protect and often hot reads aren't audibles but instant recognitions based on where the defense is lined up.

 

Nice try but everyone admits who isn't an extreme apologist that Cam struggled in the first part of the year and made better decisions as the year went on and he took what the defense gave him. Sure Chud didn't help him early but he was to blame as well.



#20 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:48 PM

The last 2 years....Cam had arguably been the most productive rusher in the NFL.

He has taken very very few worrisome hits as a rusher. Take away the short yardage and goaline stuff and you would be challenged to name 5 hard hits he took.

Yes, Newton holds on too long and that gets him in trouble some. But the OL has stunk. They stunk all around last year. Silly to try to find ways to try to defend how bad they were....it ain't Cam's fault. Bc Cam held the ball occaasionally too long doesn't mean he created the piss poor OL

#21 Promethean Forerunner

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:52 PM

The point is that their offensive line gets way too much credit because Brees and Brady get the ball out quicker and are in offenses which value quick timing throws. No one is saying our line is great but they are also at a disadvantage when their quarterback holds the ball just like Roethlisburger.
If their line was so much better it would show in the run stats as well. Notice that our line averaged 4,5 yards a run or 8th on the list,. New Orleans averaged 4.3 yards per rush good for 12 on the list. New England was 14th on the list at 4.2.

Football outsiders lists us number 1 in power blocking last year. Due to the read option we were also 26th in getting stuffed. Pass protection rankings are always about sacks and nothing else. Truth is that at least half of his sacks were attempts to run or hold the ball to make big plays instead of throwing it away or dumping it off.

Injuries were the problem plain and simple. Didn't help we started a rookie at left guard either.


Look, you have a point about Brees and Brady getting the ball out of their hands faster than Cam when the defenders are bearing down on them but Cam loves extending plays. It's one of his strengths. Place Brady or Brees behind our O-Line with our receiving core, and I doubt you'd get them completing 66% of their passes and throwing for 4500 yards.

I, for one, don't think their O-Lines get too much credit. Sure, their running stats aren't impressive but both of those squads depend on the passing game, and neither squad has all-pro caliber RBs.

#22 AceBoogie

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:53 PM

The point is that their offensive line gets way too much credit because Brees and Brady get the ball out quicker and are in offenses which value quick timing throws. No one is saying our line is great but they are also at a disadvantage when their quarterback holds the ball just like Roethlisburger.
If their line was so much better it would show in the run stats as well. Notice that our line averaged 4,5 yards a run or 8th on the list,. New Orleans averaged 4.3 yards per rush good for 12 on the list. New England was 14th on the list at 4.2.

Football outsiders lists us number 1 in power blocking last year. Due to the read option we were also 26th in getting stuffed. Pass protection rankings are always about sacks and nothing else. Truth is that at least half of his sacks were attempts to run or hold the ball to make big plays instead of throwing it away or dumping it off.

Injuries were the problem plain and simple. Didn't help we started a rookie at left guard either.


Cam inflates our rushing stats

#23 panthers55

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:54 PM

The last 2 years....Cam had arguably been the most productive rusher in the NFL.

He has taken very very few worrisome hits as a rusher. Take away the short yardage and goaline stuff and you would be challenged to name 5 hard hits he took.

Yes, Newton holds on too long and that gets him in trouble some. But the OL has stunk. They stunk all around last year. Silly to try to find ways to try to defend how bad they were....it ain't Cam's fault. Bc Cam held the ball occaasionally too long doesn't mean he created the piss poor OL

No one is saying the offensive line was good.  The point is that when the offensive line is not good you make adjustments like call quicker hitting plays, dump off more, use shorter passes and crossing routes instead of holding the ball and trying to make a deep throw.

 

Smart quarterbacks and OCs take what they have and do the best they can with what they are given.  Both Chud and Cam share some of the blame here.  Kalil didn't plan on going on IR and it wasn't amini's fault he was thrust in over his head just like Bell was in 2011. How many times were adjustments made because the offensive line struggled by anybody?? 



#24 panthers55

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:55 PM

Cam inflates our rushing stats

So does Williams.   Waits for the guy who always comes in to bash DeAngelo.  

 

Waits for it................



#25 panthers55

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:57 PM

Look, you have a point about Brees and Brady getting the ball out of their hands faster than Cam when the defenders are bearing down on them but Cam loves extending plays. It's one of his strengths. Place Brady or Brees behind our O-Line with our receiving core, and I doubt you'd get them completing 66% of their passes and throwing for 4500 yards.

I, for one, don't think their O-Lines get too much credit. Sure, their running stats aren't impressive but both of those squads depend on the passing game, and neither squad has all-pro caliber RBs.

Like I said, that is the double edged sword with Newton.  When he makes a great play running around we all go wild.  When he takes a sack and we end up in third and 15, we all groan.  I look forward to the day when through experience he learns when to hold them and when to fold them. And he will...



#26 AceBoogie

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:01 PM

So does Williams. Waits for the guy who always comes in to bash DeAngelo.

Waits for it................



But with Williams on the team Cam...a quarterback...lead us in rushing last year

#27 SuperJTheGreat

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:01 PM

d9dad149f7c148b8bab3f21480365d49--nfl_me

460x.jpg

 

Prove anything? 



#28 top dawg

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:04 PM

It's a bit of both: the O-line has been sub-par, and Cam held on to the ball too long due to inexperience and looking for the big play. No need to go back and forth on this one. You are both correct to a degree. 

 

Cam is going to have to learn to throw the ball away on a consistent basis when things break down, as opposed to forcing the issue with a bad play.



#29 2jakefansinva

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:04 PM

stats are for losers...............just win baby!



#30 Promethean Forerunner

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:05 PM

You don't need to audiblize to dump off the ball or go with a hot read. There is a checkdown guy on most every play if they don't go max protect and often hot reads aren't audibles but instant recognitions based on where the defense is lined up.

Nice try but everyone admits who isn't an extreme apologist that Cam struggled in the first part of the year and made better decisions as the year went on and he took what the defense gave him. Sure Chud didn't help him early but he was to blame as well.


There is nothing to be an apologist about Cam not being able to audible at the LOS. It IS a factor no matter what excuse you try to use. He did it all through Auburn (which is why he avoided costly turnovers). After all, one of Newton's greatest attributes is his resourcefulness before and after the snap. So I huff at your comment about Cam finally 'turning it on' towards the end of the season because he was 'smarter' and more mature when that is Cam Newton (always has been and always will be). He always takes what the defense gives him. Now did he make mistakes last season, and did he force plays? Yep. What young QB doesn't though?


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