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Swiss to Vote on Guaranteed $2800 Monthly Income for All Adults

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You see Madd Hater is one of those who believes America is filled with lazy human beings whos life long dream was to make 2,800 dollars a month =) You see my friend you lack compassion and hope in your fellow american to do what needs to be done.  You are not the only one with big dreams and desires for higher education.  The reason why there are not more higher educated kids is because their are not enough scholarships provided for those who live in impoverished areas. Kids that may have a C+ every other semester cant get full rides to school and to think that people would all join in together and stop pursuing school because of "free" income is simply ignoring present day reality.  The reality is school is too expensive for those even with working parents...the system we have in place now is not paying the middle class enough to get out of debt from those same student loans....The system now was not designed for everyone to achieve the american dream...someone had to work for much less and do much more work...At least the swiss recognize this and are doing something about it.  Having a certain amount of income does not promote crime or violence...but not having income coming in in order to eat and survice does force some people to prostitute themselves, steal and rob in order to meet the minimum to get by....You may not agree and thats fine but I have more faith in my american brothers and sisters and know that if money wasnt an object millions would chase their dream and do what they always wanted to do. 

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Yep...it is much easier to not get an education, not get training, and then expect the gov't to guarantee you $3k a month for nothing.

 

Of course you and the Dems woudl support that.  Another entitlement.

 

The rich are the entitled in this country.

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Madhatter subscribes to a worldview where money is the only thing that matters and a person's motivation and importance can be measured by their paycheck

 

Its actually quite sad

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Hatter, you really think EVERYONE would lose their intrinsic drive to earn an education or gain a valuable skill? 

 

I think MORE people would do MORE of both if we had a similar plan in place here because as it stands now, people who would otherwise like to do so can't because they are currently enslaved under our current system.

 

I think people would be much more likely to provide services for others, seek out self-enrichment, education, etc., out of the goodness of their heart because they no longer will have to worry about working like a dog at a meaningless job to keep their lights on.

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safety net spurs entrepreneurship. removing the possibility of ending up homeless if an investment* fails would promote start ups and competition.

 

 

*investment in this case applying to poor ppl investments. when fatass bankers tank the world economy, they already get bailed out

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Madhatter subscribes to a worldview where money is the only thing that matters and a person's motivation and importance can be measured by their paycheck

 

Its actually quite sad

 

madhatter subscribes to a worldview where anyone will ever give a shit about what a vp of vps of vps ever did for society. imo blowing your way to the upper middle isn't much to brag about and hardly qualifies as work when you will gladly spend every waking moment of your life defending the parasites who made it all possible

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Yep...it is much easier to not get an education, not get training, and then expect the gov't to guarantee you $3k a month for nothing.

Of course you and the Dems woudl support that. Another entitlement.

You base your arguments on old paradigms and outdated ways of [divisive] thinking that no longer serve the good of humanity. People should be able to freely pursue their dreams and passions with equal opportunity and no restraints (across the board). There's plenty of resources on this planet to go around for everyone to live comfortably, while ensuring such parameters are put in place so free will can be exercised by all. F*ck your class structures, f*ck your sense of division, f*ck your political brainwashing. Life should be easy and enjoyable for every single person on earth. We are all one and equals, and have the right to do as each of us pleases as long as it does not infringe on the free will of others. The attitude that you can only be privileged to receive such necessities of survival through drudgery is an enabler of the slave state we currently live in. Oh and your comment about "me and the dems" is a display of how hijacked your mind is...which is unfortunate.

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I'm sure a good bit of that money would go back into the economy as well.   General attitude should change, since less people feel like they are in the gutter and can't get out.   I'm sure people will still work and want to make more, that's just human nature.  Job market would be easier to find a job, parents can stay home and raise their child, etc.

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So if everyone on this board got 2800 a month, promised income, you would go out and start making ways to work?

 

Yeah...Judging from many of your posts I'm going to find that hard to believe.

 

Sure a strong % of people would likely try and make new things, better society with innovation, education, discovery and such. My fear that prevents me from such a belief is that a large enough % would simply kick back and play some Xbox and complain about all the noise the people mowing the grass are making.

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So if everyone on this board got 2800 a month, promised income, you would go out and start making ways to work?

 

Yeah...Judging from many of your posts I'm going to find that hard to believe.

 

Sure a strong % of people would likely try and make new things, better society with innovation, education, discovery and such. My fear that prevents me from such a belief is that a large enough % would simply kick back and play some Xbox and complain about all the noise the people mowing the grass are making.

 

Sometimes life isnt fair.  Maybe instead of wasting so much time and money forcing lazy assholes to work, we should just give them the bare minimum to live (which would obviously be less than $2800 in most places in the US), and let the rest of us get on with our lives.  Doing this would mean massive savings in government bureaucracy, you wouldnt need to worry about approving unemployment claims, disability, medicare, social security, welfare, etc.

 

Such a system would also make it much easier to pursue your true interests.  You'd be able to take an internship in a new field to gain experience without worrying about putting food on the table or living on the street.  Businesses wouldnt have to worry about a minimum wage, and anyone could invest their time and money into new ventures without risking their future and the future of their kids. 

 

Its time to start thinking about what society will look like in the future rather than trying to perfect the society of the past.  In the early 19th century something like 70% of people in the US lived and worked on the farm, but today all our agricultural production can be done by 1% of the population (and at a fraction of the cost).  We arent going back there.

 

Maybe we arent at the point in time where any of this will work, but its not like automation has finished replacing people in the workforce.  Efficiency has made millions of jobs redundant, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.  Its time to start adapting to the future rather than reacting to it, and unfortunately the US government as a whole seems to be doing a rather terrible job of it.

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Lets just have a Star Trek world where anything anyone wants is instantly provided by a replicator and everyone can just pursue art and leisure and live peacefully together. Except for the Romulans, fuck them. 

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Yep...it is much easier to not get an education, not get training, and then expect the gov't to guarantee you $3k a month for nothing.

Of course you and the Dems woudl support that. Another entitlement.


What are we all wanting to be? congressmen?

Entitled dudes who sit on their ass doing nothing meaningful expecting pay?!
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So if everyone on this board got 2800 a month, promised income, you would go out and start making ways to work?

Yeah...Judging from many of your posts I'm going to find that hard to believe.

Sure a strong % of people would likely try and make new things, better society with innovation, education, discovery and such. My fear that prevents me from such a belief is that a large enough % would simply kick back and play some Xbox and complain about all the noise the people mowing the grass are making.


2800 a month would allow people to take more chances at starting up their own businesses or pursuing their dreams that may or may not be with huge financial risks.

The 2800 would be taxed...the remaining money WOULD trickle down into the economy for goods and services sales tax...eliminate Social security, disability, and the associated agencies.

Sure there will be a bunch of dudes on xbox doing nothing but it is no different than now with unemployment/disability for some.

The drive gene cannot be taught.

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So if everyone on this board got 2800 a month, promised income, you would go out and start making ways to work?

 

Yeah...Judging from many of your posts I'm going to find that hard to believe.

 

Sure a strong % of people would likely try and make new things, better society with innovation, education, discovery and such. My fear that prevents me from such a belief is that a large enough % would simply kick back and play some Xbox and complain about all the noise the people mowing the grass are making.

 

Yeah I would because I make more than that now and would need to stay in line with current pay for my budget.  I mean, I could cut out things but I don't want to, and that's fine, because I would at least be working because I WANT to not because I HAVE to.   Could also mean we work less hours, which is needed.

 

With this people could go to college and not worry so much.  College would be full of people that WANT to be there instead of people that feel they have to.  Maybe more people will get into things like science, inventing, finding cures, you know things that aren't very profitable when you have to make a check to live.   Like I said above, parents can raise their own kids now much easier.  Things would be so much better without the rat race of school > college> work > die.  We would be more free to experience things in life, be with our family more, etc.  

 

Obviously it would never happen in a country like this where the rich like to keep everyone under foot and have half the country brain washed and voting for them, but it's a nice thought.

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So if everyone on this board got 2800 a month, promised income, you would go out and start making ways to work?

 

Yeah...Judging from many of your posts I'm going to find that hard to believe.

 

Sure a strong % of people would likely try and make new things, better society with innovation, education, discovery and such. My fear that prevents me from such a belief is that a large enough % would simply kick back and play some Xbox and complain about all the noise the people mowing the grass are making.

 

 

Initially, the Mincome program was conceived as a labour market experiment. The government wanted to know what would happen if everybody in town received a guaranteed income, and specifically, they wanted to know whether people would still work.

 

It turns out they did.

 

Only two segments of Dauphin's labour force worked less as a result of Mincome—new mothers and teenagers. Mothers with newborns stopped working because they wanted to stay at home longer with their babies. And teenagers worked less because they weren't under as much pressure to support their families.

 

The end result was that they spent more time at school and more teenagers graduated. Those who continued to work were given more opportunities to choose what type of work they did.

“People didn't have to take the first job that came along,” says Hikel. “They could wait for something better that suited them.

 

 

 

In the period that Mincome was administered, hospital visits dropped 8.5 per cent. Fewer people went to the hospital with work-related injuries and there were fewer emergency room visits from car accidents and domestic abuse. There were also far fewer mental health visits.

 

It's not hard to see why, says Forget.

 

“When you walk around a hospital, it's pretty clear that a lot of the time what we're treating are the consequences of poverty,” she says.

 

Give people financial independence and control over their lives and these accidents and illnesses tend to dissipate, says Forget. In today's terms, an 8.5 per cent decrease in hospital visits across Canada would save the government $4 billion annually, by her calculations. And $4 billion is the amount that the federal government is currently trying to save by slashing social programming and arts funding.

 

http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4100

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Obviously it would never happen in a country like this where the rich like to keep everyone under foot and have half the country brain washed and voting for them, but it's a nice thought.

 

While at the upper upper levels I believe there exists truth in what you are saying, but the constant undermining of working your own path vs "Guaranteed Minimal Income" troubles me greatly.

 

This coming from someone that likely makes less than most of the posters in this thread.

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While at the upper upper levels I believe there exists truth in what you are saying, but the constant undermining of working your own path vs "Guaranteed Minimal Income" troubles me greatly.

 

This coming from someone that likely makes less than most of the posters in this thread.

 

I think that people that have the drive and will to carve out a prosperous life would still do so.

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I think that people that have the drive and will to carve out a prosperous life would still do so.

I do too, my issue is how to rid myself of the burden of paying for those that have no drive.

 

I have a large issue with societal leeches.

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Please, please pass this in the USA... my golf game would dramatically and rapidly improve... what with all the free time off from work.

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Lets just have a Star Trek world where anything anyone wants is instantly provided by a replicator and everyone can just pursue art and leisure and live peacefully together. Except for the Romulans, fug them. 

 

 

 

When I think of human progression, Star Trek TNG is my end goal. 

 

Who knows ;) 

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When I think of human progression, Star Trek TNG is my end goal. 

 

Who knows ;)

 

If they could just start with the Holodeck I'd be good.

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So if everyone on this board got 2800 a month, promised income, you would go out and start making ways to work?

 

Yeah...Judging from many of your posts I'm going to find that hard to believe.

 

Sure a strong % of people would likely try and make new things, better society with innovation, education, discovery and such. My fear that prevents me from such a belief is that a large enough % would simply kick back and play some Xbox and complain about all the noise the people mowing the grass are making.

 

80/20 rule.

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Can you expand your thought?

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If they could just start with the Holodeck I'd be good.

 

Man, I'd be in there all day long. :P

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http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4100


So the effects are parents can better raise their childern, spend more time for longer so they grow up in more stable enviornments with extended nurturing and bonding in early childhood.

Society is better educated as it can be more affordable with possibly more time spent in education.

Society is heathier because of less stress due to finances and extended work weeks.

These factors funnel into a cycle that feeds into itself that will enhance society over the course of each generation.


Right now we see states govern by denying citizens healthcare, cutting nutrition programs and head start educationional programs, raising tuition rates and laying off workers..which too feeds into itself.

Guess which way the latter solution feeds....into creating more poverty, less healty citizens, increases in crime and more potential tea party members.

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