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Cody Zeller


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#31 Proudiddy

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:35 AM

McBob can hit the three occasionally, which is something this team DESPERATELY needs.  I'd also like Z to get more play time, but I can see why McBob might be seen as a better fit right now.  If Z could find his shot I think the PT would get switched in a hurry.

 

Agreed.  McBob has the ability to hit the three consistently, while Cody is not hitting his mid-range much at all.

 

BUT, as I posted previously, Zeller and Nowitzki's stats through midway of their rookie season are almost identical.  Difference was, Nowitzki ended up finishing strong because he started getting a LOT more minutes at the end of the season...  His season high was 29 IIRC, and yet he still finished with fairly modest averages for the season. 

 

IMO, the only way Zeller is going to improve, is by playing.  I've been there.  He isn't going to improve by sitting on the bench.  From my experience playing, it looks to me like his struggles are mental.  As a wise man once told me, basketball is 90% mental and 10% physical.  Zeller has absolutely no confidence.  We saw him hit the midrange shot in college, now he can't.  We saw him hit the shot in summer league, and now he can't.  He gets paid to practice and play basketball for a living, so PHYSICALLY and muscle-memory wise, he can ONLY improve.  The problem is, with limited minutes, his chance of having a breakout moment, which then leads to a breakout game, is extremely unlikely - and that is what he needs.  He needs to have a game where his shot falls, he stays in the game, and then he starts to believe in himself again.  Right now, he is very passive and lacking almost all confidence in his game, and that is why he is struggling.  All this, "needs to get stronger" crap is just that, crap...  Clifford needs to quit bullshitting and play him.

 

When he comes in the game and passes up a shot and/or misses a shot and ends up with a grand total of 12 minutes played, he's just going to stay in this drought.



#32 Guest_Dark Knight_*

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:02 PM

I quit watching the Bobcats last week. Tired of watching McRoberts jack up shots and get destroyed on the boards while Zeller just sits on the bench in his warm ups.

Zeller is extremely talented & young. Have people already forgot he was the most coveted player in college 18 months ago?

He has the potential & offensive talent to average 20. But he's never gonna develop sitting in the bench while mediocre players get all the playing time.

#33 Buzz

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:04 PM

You make some good points Proudiddy but I disagree with you about Zeller needing to get stronger.

 

He is a power forward who is consistently pushed out of the way, he has no lower presence and he is awkward like a kid who has not grown into his size.  I agree that he has no confidence but it's not just about his outside shot.

 

Either he is too weak or he is too passive.  One thing you cannot teach or add in a weight room is aggression and instinct.  Let's say for sake of argument that Zeller is strong enough, then he is too passive as a person and a player.  Look at any interview with him and his demeanor in games.  If he is a naturaly laid back person with out that natural aggression then this altheticism is only going to take him so far. 

 

Even with his confidence he isn't going to be banging down low with the big guys which is the whole problem with this draft pick, when you need an outside shooter you draft a shooting guard, not a 7 foot power forward.  Dirk Nowitzki has been in the NBA for 15 years and the amount of players that could be compared to him are low, so when he is used as an example of Cody's upside potential isn't really fair for Cody or us as fans since stretch fours odds of being that type of player are low.

 

Going back to Dirk's rookie year there are similarites to Cody phisically but Dirk was always more fluid, he never looked as clunky or lost as Cody does.

 

And I still hope Cody pans out.  If he gets good and has a break out game, and it all clicks for him that is great but as a fan I can only go off of what I've seen so far which isn't much.



#34 Proudiddy

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:06 PM

I quit watching the Bobcats last week. Tired of watching McRoberts jack up shots and get destroyed on the boards while Zeller just sits on the bench in his warm ups.

Zeller is extremely talented & young. Have people already forgot he was the most coveted player in college 18 months ago?

He has the potential & offensive talent to average 20. But he's never gonna develop sitting in the bench while mediocre players get all the playing time.

 

Agreed 100%.  I just don't get where all the Zeller hate is coming from.  The dude has game, and has shown flashes.  He was arguably the best rookie in all of the summer leagues, and yet, because he's only getting 12 minutes or so a game, he sucks now?  LOL.  There aren't many guys in the league now, or that have been in the league EVER, who have Zeller's size and athletic ability.  He will not get out of this funk until he is given time to do so.



#35 Buzz

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:10 PM

I do think he should get more minutes just to see what will happen, it worked for Anthony Bennett.



#36 MichaelNewtonII

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:16 PM

Yes he could be worse then Zeller. A lot worse. People talking about Zeller needs to add strength. Make that × 4 for Noel who also by the way has no outside game or post game.

 

noel will have a year of training he will be much more nba ready than zeller was not to mention hes younger
 



#37 Proudiddy

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:19 PM

You make some good points Proudiddy but I disagree with you about Zeller needing to get stronger.

 

He is a power forward who is consistently pushed out of the way, he has no lower presence and he is awkward like a kid who has not grown into his size.  I agree that he has no confidence but it's not just about his outside shot.

 

Either he is too weak or he is too passive.  One thing you cannot teach or add in a weight room is aggression and instinct.  Let's say for sake of argument that Zeller is strong enough, then he is too passive as a person and a player.  Look at any interview with him and his demeanor in games.  If he is a naturaly laid back person with out that natural aggression then this altheticism is only going to take him so far. 

 

Even with his confidence he isn't going to be banging down low with the big guys which is the whole problem with this draft pick, when you need an outside shooter you draft a shooting guard, not a 7 foot power forward.  Dirk Nowitzki has been in the NBA for 15 years and the amount of players that could be compared to him are low, so when he is used as an example of Cody's upside potential isn't really fair for Cody or us as fans since stretch fours odds of being that type of player are low.

 

Going back to Dirk's rookie year there are similarites to Cody phisically but Dirk was always more fluid, he never looked as clunky or lost as Cody does.

 

And I still hope Cody pans out.  If he gets good and has a break out game, and it all clicks for him that is great but as a fan I can only go off of what I've seen so far which isn't much.

 

Yeah, my point is, Cody's issue is mental, which kind of parlays into or off of his demeanor.  He is a pretty laid back guy.  BUT, that isn't an indictment on what type of player he can be on the court.  The point is, he has to find his niche on the court and build his confidence, and that only will come with playing time.

 

His strength is not a concern for me, it's his mindset that has to change.  His strength is plenty enough as-is when we're talking about stretch fours.  Furthermore, I don't know how many times I've watched McBob get completely destroyed in the post, so that's why Clifford saying "Cody needs to get stronger" is a farce to me.  McBob doesn't appear to be any better of a defender or any stronger than Zeller is right now.  Zeller looks strong...  again, I just go back to his lack of confidence. 

 

I've experienced it myself and I've seen it happen time and time again in other players.  If he is constantly in fear of being pulled and questioning every decision he makes on the floor, he will not improve.  He needs the time to feel comfortable out there...  Then, when a couple of shots start falling, it's almost like riding a bike...  You never forgot, but it all comes back to you...  He's passive because he doesn't want to make mistakes.  Once he starts making plays, it will all start rolling from there - he will be confident, aggressive, and decisive.

 

Even with Dirk, I don't know how many people watched him closely his rookie year because no one really expected him to become what he has - so, in that sense, you're right, it is unfair to compare young stretch fours to him.  BUT, as I said, Zeller has that ability.  He is fluid, fast on his feet, and quick.  He looks clunky when he makes bad decisions - trying to force up shots underneath, jumping in the air without anywhere to go with the ball, etc.  His movement isn't an issue, IMO, he's just playing indecisive and reckless once he does make a decision.

 

But again, I go back to confidence.  If he gets that, he will be what everyone has been hoping he would be, and likely more.

 



#38 Guest_Dark Knight_*

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:29 PM

Could've been.....

PG Kemba Walker
SG FA scorer
SF Jabari Parker
PF Cody Zeller
C Al Jefferson

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Gerald Henderson
Bismack Biyombo
Jeff Taylor
1st Rder via Detroit
1st Rder via Portland

Championship caliber roster in 2-3 years







But it'll never happen... poor franchise......

2014-15 Hornets:

Starters:

PG Kemba Walker
SG Gerald Henderson
SF Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
PF Josh McRoberts
C Al Jefferson

Depth chart:

PG Ramon Sessions
PF Bismack Biyombo
SG Gary Harris (via Detroit)
SF Anthony Tolliver
SF Jeff Taylor
PF Cody Zeller
SF Glen Robinson III (1st Rder)
PG Nick Johnson (via Portland)
PF 2nd Rder

#39 WOW!!

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:13 PM

noel will have a year of training he will be much more nba ready than zeller was not to mention hes younger


What??

He's not playing or improving his already limited game.

Plus he needs at least 2 off-season to get to Cody Zeller's size and strengths.
Dude is a stick figure.

#40 Guest_Dark Knight_*

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:14 PM

noel will have a year of training he will be much more nba ready than zeller was not to mention hes younger


Yeah.. He's getting a ton of training rehabbing his shredded knee....

He has no basketball skills whatsoever...

All he does well is block shots...

His knees won't hold up & even if they do he will wash out of the league

#41 WOW!!

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:20 PM

Yeah.. He's getting a ton of training rehabbing his shredded knee....

He has no basketball skills whatsoever...

All he does well is block shots...

His knees won't hold up & even if they do he will wash out of the league


Some people don't understand basketball really? ?

This guy doesn't even understand that Noel and Al couldn't be in the game at the same time because Noel doesn't have any game outside of 3 or 4 feet from the basket.

#42 Guest_Dark Knight_*

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:26 PM

Some people don't understand basketball really? ?

This guy doesn't even understand that Noel and Al couldn't be in the game at the same time because Noel doesn't have any game outside of 3 or 4 feet from the basket.


Noel is a scrawny version of Biyombo. Not to mention he has bum knees and is only 18 months younger than Biz. I'd rather have Biz who is a proven rebounder & shot blocker.... & stays healthy.

He's only 18 months younger than Cody, too. And he will never have 1/10th of the offensive talent Cody possesses.

#43 ECUPantherFan

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:50 PM

I'm a big Cody Zeller fan.  Definitely wasn't excited about it when we drafted him, but he really showed a lot of promise in the Summer League.  I think if Clifford would just play him a little more, we'd see him shake off the rookie rust and start showing what he can do!  I think he's our PF going forward... unless we grab a franchise center and move Al to the 4.



#44 Buzz

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:01 PM

 BUT, as I said, Zeller has that ability.  He is fluid, fast on his feet, and quick.  He looks clunky when he makes bad decisions - trying to force up shots underneath, jumping in the air without anywhere to go with the ball, etc.  His movement isn't an issue, IMO, he's just playing indecisive and reckless once he does makes a decision.

 

But again, I go back to confidence.  If he gets that, he will be what everyone has been hoping he would be, and likely more.

 

 

Those are good points, the jumping into the air with nowhere to go is the worst thing he could do when he does it lol.

 

Yeah his confidence needs to improve and that may only come with increased playing time, after seeing Anthony Bennett the other night when he got more playing time I think they should give it to him and let him learn on the job. 

 

I agree that with the minutes he gets, establishing a rhythm would be tough.



#45 Guest_Dark Knight_*

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:24 PM

I'm a big Cody Zeller fan. Definitely wasn't excited about it when we drafted him, but he really showed a lot of promise in the Summer League. I think if Clifford would just play him a little more, we'd see him shake off the rookie rust and start showing what he can do! I think he's our PF going forward... unless we grab a franchise center and move Al to the 4.

They've already blown a top 3 & top 8 pick on Biz & Zeller plus spent big money on Al....

If they bring in another expensive vet it better be a scoring machine to stick in the back court with Kemba


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