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#3102577 Josh Norman: Munnerlyn Never Helped Me

Posted by Marguide on 23 November 2014 - 10:22 PM

I'm surprised so many are willing to take Norman's version as the correct one. Josh has always had a reputation of being kind of a jerk and not an easy guy to like. Maybe Captain was the same way too; I suspect neither one of them are the kind of guys you would want to spend a lot of time around.

#3100197 Spending $13.1 million

Posted by Marguide on 21 November 2014 - 07:40 PM

You can't look at just the 2014 cap hit. Hardy was a rental specifically because he cost nothing after 2014. All of those players would command even more in future seasons.


Of course, but are they not all players worthy of a multi-year commitment? Why are we suddenly restricting ourselves to 1 or 2 year deals?


The key is signing the right people at the right price.

#3100192 Spending $13.1 million

Posted by Marguide on 21 November 2014 - 07:32 PM

As all of you know, we tagged Greg Hardy at a cost of $13.1 million in cap space. According to those closest to the team, there was never any intention of signing him long term nor any attempt to trade him. So consider him a 1 year rental.


Here's the question/exercise...what could we have done with that same amount of cap space if we chose not to tag Hardy?  A few examples follow. Please note this thread has nothing to do with his legal problems, we are only looking at the potential value of a great defensive end versus filling some holes in other areas with good players.


For example, here are 3 players we could have signed and stayed roughly the same in cap impact:

  • Golden Tate, WR, Cap hit of $3.1 million
  • Jason Veldheer, LT, Cap hit of $2.5 million
  •  Aquib Talib, CB, Cap hit of $7.9 million


Would we have been better off with these 3 or with Greg Hardy alone?


If you want to look at who was available, check this link: http://www.cbssports...ons/free-agents


For cap charges, follow this link: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/ and just type in who you want to search for.


The point of all of this is to show that we had a number of viable options available to us. Guys like Branden Albert, DeSean Jackson, Eric Decker and Alterraun Verner. And by the way, our old buddy Mike Mitchell carries a $2.2 million cap hit this year.


It's your chance to play GM. Have at it.



#3099551 Who to blame for Panthers' last ranked D

Posted by Marguide on 21 November 2014 - 09:03 AM

I don't think that's the problem. I think he's trying get all the dead cap removed from the team to sign his drafted players long term including cam and luke. From my understanding of your post you're meaning backload the contracts? 


Signing players to multi-year deals does not mean they are back loaded. You can front load them, or back load them, or make the cap hit equal throughout the length of the contract.


Let's say there is a guy you really want. His agent says he won't sign for less than $12 million guaranteed, and he expects at least an additional $2 million per year average in base salary. If it's a 2 year deal that is spread equally, the cap charge per year is $7 million. If it's 3 years, the cap charge is $6 million. If it's 4 years, it's $5 million. If he's a good player, a guy you think is a fit in your system, paying $5 or $6 million a year is fair and workable.


Where Hurney fuged up was he both paid people too much, and at least in the case of Stewart, he heavily backloaded the deal. Without looking up the numbers, Stewart got something like $25 million in guaranteed money, but it wasn't all paid out when the deal was signed. Something like $9 million was signing bonus, but the rest of the guaranteed money hit in later years. So if you cut him in the early years of the deal, you still owe him the rest of the guaranteed money. If you want to see the firm numbers, you can check out a site like Spotrack.


You can also front load a deal if you are in a position to do so (we aren't right now). In that case, you pay the signing bonus up front, and make the salary higher in the early years of the deal and less in the later years.


So my original point was we could have used that $13 million spent on Hardy differently. Would 1 Hardy have a greater impact than say 3 decent players at other positions? Hard to say, but certainly debatable. Of course, you only go that route if you have players you like and feel they fit your system.


Just for the record, a guy like Anthony Collins carries a cap charge of $6 million per year. He may not be playing well in Tampa's scheme and he may not have for us either. The only reason I mention him is people see he signed a $30 million dollar deal and instantly think we could not have afforded him or any other player signing in that ballpark, and that's just not true.

#3099209 Who to blame for Panthers' last ranked D

Posted by Marguide on 20 November 2014 - 10:14 PM

Who are some of the players you had in mind that would take the one year/two/three year deals adding up to 13 million in gauranteed money?


I've seen this argument on here before and it's not really correct.


If they were all 1 year deals, then yes, we could have truly only spent $13 million. But there's nothing saying we can't sign guys to 2, 3, 4 or 5 year deals if they are players we want. That same $13 million goes a long way with multi-year deals.


And before everyone starts screaming "Yeah, that's what Hurney did and look what that got us", the problem wasn't signing people to multi-years deals. It was signing the wrong people and/or overpaying them.


Gettleman's strength is supposed to be scouting and player evaluation. If he doesn't have confidence enough to sign anyone to a multi-year deal then we're in trouble.

#3097469 Which would you rather see happen?

Posted by Marguide on 19 November 2014 - 03:50 PM

All of you know this team is not Super Bowl bound this year.


You and I also know Rivera has to go. He has gotten worse, not better.


So why would you want at least 1 more season of futility from Ron just to host a playoff game in which we would likely be humiliated?


This team is headed in the wrong direction. We aren't on the cusp of anything, despite what Ron or Shula might say. The only cure is to clean house, Shula isn't enough, he and Ron are 2 peas in a pod. The best thing long term for this team is for JR and Gettleman to find themselves in the position that they have to do something to retain credibility as an organization.


I don't care about draft position, but I do care about effective leadership and a winning environment.

#3096800 New Panthers PreGame Video - did you notice?

Posted by Marguide on 19 November 2014 - 08:34 AM

Rivera wasn't involved in the production or it would have featured:


B. Bell

B. Bersin

A. Cason

G. Gano

R. Harper


with a cameo by C. Godfrey just for old times sake.

#3096329 Panthers Highlight Reel - moRon Rivera's Dumbest Decisions

Posted by Marguide on 18 November 2014 - 07:57 PM

In that same Chicago game, he didn't try an end of half field goal because he was afraid the kicker's psyche would be damaged if he missed it.

For our newer fans, this is not made up. That was Ron's actual post game explanation.

#3096066 rivera - eagles game an eye opener

Posted by Marguide on 18 November 2014 - 04:54 PM

If Ron Rivera has any credibility left in the locker room then NFL players are collectively dumber than previously thought.



#3094623 Rivera's Blunder - Illustrated

Posted by Marguide on 18 November 2014 - 08:28 AM

Im as upset about this as anyonw but serious question here, had gano made the field goal and then the defense picked off Matt Ryan to seal the game would anyone be complaining right now?

I get the issues you bring up and feel Rivera was dead wrong but if the decision turned out the other way would we be angry? Because I definitely think we should have, but I'm not sure that would have been the case.


Everyone was complaining about Rivera putting on the brakes before the kick was attempted, so it's not like we're just pulling out 20/20 hindsight.


It was a major error, and sent a horrible message to the offensive players.


Towards the end of his first year or early in the second (I honestly don't remember), I posted a thread about how Rivera's problem as a HC was that he didn't trust his players to execute. It might have been after the heartbreaking Chicago game, when Rivera didn't want to try a long field goal because he didn't want to hurt the delicate psyche of the kicker in case of a miss. Chud was still the OC then, so this problem has spanned both Chud and Shula. It's Ron, plain and simple.  Last year was different out of desperation, but Rivera doesn't have the ability to change his stripes long term.


We will never win anything with him, and the players are going to stop listening to him sooner rather than later. Change at the top is absolutely necessary.

#3086163 Steve Logan absolutely nails it about Cam Newton and Panthers

Posted by Marguide on 14 November 2014 - 12:07 AM

You guys are way off base. Just to help you out, I'm going to enlighten you on the things Cam is doing wrong. Here goes:


1) He needs to get the ball out quicker even if there is no one to throw to.

2) He should just hit the check down option when he's pressured, even when there aren't any visible on the field. They are there, you just can't see them.

3) He takes too many sacks. Why can't he just throw the ball away? You know, like Jimmy used to do.

4) He comes out of the huddle too slowly, thus giving bad vibes to the rest of the offense.

5) His lack of maturity is just not on par with guys like Brady or Manning. How much longer do we give him to develop?

6) He doesn't elevate the play of the scrubs players around him.


Face the facts. No matter what some radio guy says about him, he's just not elite in his 4th year in the league, so it's obvious he'll never be any good. Just trade him for a 3rd round pick and be done with it. The only other alternative is to get him to sign a 5 year, $12 million dollar per year contract with plenty of outs for the team so they can cut him anytime they want.


Sorry for being "that guy" but someone has to keep you people from being horribly disappointed over the next few years.

#3084841 New strategy by Panthers front office and coaching staff: Let's all take...

Posted by Marguide on 12 November 2014 - 10:23 PM

It's a learned thing here to be defensive about Cam because of the idiotic and skeevy criticism of him from the day we drafted him by a loud contingent. We're so used to defending him from absurd criticism from people like Grits and the guy who pied your post, that when he does have a bad game like on Monday, it's hard to let down the wall of defense and actually talk about his faults.


This is especially true when many of these "realists" and "rational" posters throw around terms like "nut hugger", "ball licker" etc. These terms are a red flag that tell us the posters are anything but rational or realistic, and furthermore they apparently have some sort of homophobic thing going on.


If you want your posts to be taken seriously, perhaps it would be wise to start by talking like an adult and not like someone hoping to graduate from the 9th grade later this year.

#3084689 The run to the playoffs begins Sunday!

Posted by Marguide on 12 November 2014 - 07:54 PM

I admire your optimism, OP, I really do.

I think you're fuging crazy, but I admire you.

#3083743 Panthers officials insist Cam Newton's MNF problems totally mental

Posted by Marguide on 12 November 2014 - 10:35 AM

It is becoming increasingly hard to support the Panther's organization.

#3082797 The Truth - by SCP

Posted by Marguide on 11 November 2014 - 08:57 PM

Green beans aside...

We started rebuilding in 2010 with Clausen. So next year will be our 6th season in this supposed rebuild process. News flash! It doesn't take 6 years to rebuild in the NFL.

So what we are doing isn't rebuilding per se. We're kind of floundering around trying to stay reasonably competitive while cleaning up the Hurney contracts as we go along and we are doing it with a very questionable coaching staff.

Choosing to rent Hardy for a year at $13 million has only prolonged the agony. We should have either used that money to clear some more bad contracts or brought in several mid-range vets to keep us competitive. And this has nothing to do with his incident. Keeping him for one year at that price was a luxury we couldn't afford.

So it may not be a case where we should be patient and give the green beans time to cook, rather, we may need someone in the kitchen who actually knows how to cook the damn things.

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