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MHS831

Member Since 08 Jun 2010
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 10:40 PM
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Posts I've Made

In Topic: Huddle question: Do they pay Cam next year?

19 December 2014 - 12:10 PM

Here are the facts:

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

 

Cam is 20th in about every category except for running.  Note that some QBs his age or younger are higher in nearly every category.   This is my point--is he worth the contract?  In October, it was reported that he would not be interested in "Pay as you play" deal that gives the team an escape clause.  The articles I read (they are all over the internet) claim that his camp wants $50 m guaranteed.  I just do not think he has earned it.  If you want to know how productive--not flashy, but productive--look at the names around him on this list.  Change the categories and see where he ranks.  look at the surrounding names---heck, this even gives those who think stats are as important as wins and losses a chance to shine.  20th.  Surrounded by names like Fitzpatrick and Tanneyhill.  However, if the articles were accurate, he wants to be paid with Rogers, Manning, Brady, Brees, etc.  He wants guaranteed money for potential.  Those players were producing on a regular basis when they signed their deals.  He is right in the Dalton (16th) and Kaepernick (22) range, both accepted "pay for play" contracts.  Paying for potential gets you Cutler. 

 

So this is the problem facing Gettlemen.  I see both sides, but my position is simple-he has not earned an elite guaranteed contract, so don't expect Gettlemen to give him one.


In Topic: Huddle question: Do they pay Cam next year?

19 December 2014 - 10:41 AM

Ugh it's like you didn't actually even read my post then continued to poo post.

The 9 other qbs with higher qb rating is completely irrelevant because that's not even the point I was arguing. Cam was the highest graded qb on PFF.

He's been far and way sacked more than anyone other qb this season(will end up having a career high in being sacked this season) and since he's entered the league.

When cam actually has time in the pocket his as good as any other qb

Look at the saints game. He wasn't touched once and threw for 300 and multiple tds. Your argument is beyond shitty.

 

Maybe we should all chip in and buy a banner for the stadium that reads, "Cam Newton: Highest Rated QB on some website during weeks 2-7, 2014"  You can organize the parade.


In Topic: Huddle question: Do they pay Cam next year?

19 December 2014 - 10:39 AM

there are so many factual errors (not opinions, but facts) that are wrong in this post i don't even know where to start.

I know where to start---list them.  My opinion is based on my opinion of an elite qb.  Cam has not met those qualifications yet.  If you don't agree, list your own facts and support your opinion.  I look beyond the athletic runs for a first down and the streaks.  I want a QB celebrating TDs, and wins not first downs and moral victories.  Facts?  There are only perceptions, and I state mine. 


In Topic: Huddle question: Do they pay Cam next year?

18 December 2014 - 01:29 AM

It is incredibly foolish to simply throw out all of Newton's success and judge him solely on this season, a season in which just about every single player on this team has struggled at some point. You cannot just omit all of the contributing factors and say "welp, we can't pay him".

 

Give Newton the offseason to get 100%.

 

Shore up the OL, and get some fresh ideas in here for this offense, if that means a new OC, then do it. Shula isn't cutting it.

 

Nobody but you is talking about throwing $120 million at him right now.
 

 

I disagree.  Newton has been 100% healthy for most of his career.  He has had decent lines and decent weapons.  He has had some great games, and some games where he should have been pulled.  He is inconsistent because he has no identity as a QB and his mechanics are terrible while his athleticism is incredible.  I am not impressed by a qb leading his team in rushing.  I am not impressed by a qb holding the ball for 5 seconds and taking a sack.  I am impressed with his arm, his size, and his charisma.  He has the tools.  He is not there yet.  If you have to make excuses for him, you are not either.

 

Tell me, do we have to build a great team around Cam to make him great, or is it the other way around?  I told you before that Ian Rappaport reported that Cam's camp wanted him to be paid like an elite qb.  I even shared the link with you.  Now you are saying I am the only one saying $120m. How much do you think elite QBs make?   You missed the point again. 

 

Here is my point, but many on here have to make it black and white to understand it.  We don't know how good he can be.  While a QB like Andrew Luck makes everyone around him better, evidenced by taking a 2-14 team to three straight 10+ seasons, Cam faithful claim that Cam needs talent around him to step up., Just because you claim that he has no talent around him, that does not mean he will be great when he does.  In fact, the paradox is this--if that is the case, how good is he? 

 

This is a cyclical argument and I don't care that you are determined to get me to see your "logic."  I don't buy it.  Against New Orleans, Cam was terrific--elite, in fact. However, to reach that level of play, he had to run.  Remember when he was hit and we all thought he wasn't getting up?  He got up smiling.  Still, he is already--at age 25--started showing the signs of the beating he has taken.  Cam needs to learn to stay in the pocket if he is to survive.  There is no way I pay him elite money if he has to run and be surrounded by superior talent to win.  The math is simple. 


In Topic: Huddle question: Do they pay Cam next year?

17 December 2014 - 10:02 PM

All contracts are based on future production. You never pay for past performance. You pay for what you think you are going to get from the player out of the life of the contract.


Through the first six weeks of the season cam was the highest rated QB in the league from PFF and was an MVP candidate then his oline got riddled with injuries and you saw the drop. Cam was killing it purely from the pocket due to his injury.

I don't think you really know what you're talking him tbh

.  Your argument reveals inconsistent performance.  You say Cam was great behind the OLINE during weeks 1-6 and he was "killing it from the pocket" (by the way, there were 9 QBs with higher qb ratings during Cam's hot streak) but then you blame the OLINE because he dropped off statistically. That makes no sense.  It reveals that you give Cam credit for his success but blame his shortcomings on others--no wonder you have trouble making points.

 

Frankly, I am tired of having selective stats thrown at me from obscure sources to prove to me that Cam is great.  My point is this--he has not proven he can win consistently and he has shown that his style of play leads to lingering injuries.  He needs to run to win.  These facts are consistent with his record as a qb. The NFL QB is measured by wins and losses. There are not many great qbs on bad teams and there are not many great teams with bad qbs.  They are connected, which is why great QBs are measured by rings.  Nobody measures greatness by a six-game stretch where a qb has a hot streak according to some website.  Your argument is embarrassing.

 

Cam has all the tools and may be great with more support.  However, he has not earned a top contract given to elite qbs because he is not elite at this time--even if PFF thinks so.  I pray he will be, and I am excited about his potential when we put studs and stars around him, but he is what he is right now.  Giving him $120 million or so could wreck the franchise if he does not improve and become more consistent.  It is a huge gamble, and if you do not see it, you are biased.  I want him to be great, but if you are crowning him the MVP, you don't understand this game.


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