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Mr. Scot

Kyle Bailey suggests defense going 3-4 is an option

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49 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Rashard Gary,  Celin Ferrell,  Montez Sweat, and Zach Allen

That’s what I was looking at.  Both Gary and Ferrell are supposed to be long gone before we pick.  Based on the tape I have watched and other profiles of Allen he is good against the run.  But lacks the speed and flexibility to rushe the passer effectively.  Sweat is one of the guys I was looking at.   But is 6’6” is only 241 lbs.   He could possibly develop into a decent end over time   But I don’t think that in next year so.  

Here is a scouting film  

Sweats analytics is actually pretty good.  And we know Tepper has a hard on for analytics  

here are his analytics:

My point is that people are arguing that it will take a year or so to transition to a 3-4 defense.  Peeper’s is gone and besides Addison I don’t see us having any pass rush for a couple of years.  That’s why I am not against the transition.  

Maybe we ought to draft a bunch of secondary early next year.  We are going to need it.  

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12 minutes ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

That’s what I was looking at.  Both Gary and Ferrell are supposed to be long gone before we pick.  Based on the tape I have watched and other profiles of Allen he is good against the run.  But lacks the speed and flexibility to rushe the passer effectively.  Sweat is one of the guys I was looking at.   But is 6’6” is only 241 lbs.   He could possibly develop into a decent end over time   But I don’t think that in next year so.  

Here is a scouting film  

Sweats analytics is actually pretty good.  And we know Tepper has a hard on for analytics  

here are his analytics:

My point is that people are arguing that it will take a year or so to transition to a 3-4 defense.  Peeper’s is gone and besides Addison I don’t see us having any pass rush for a couple of years.  That’s why I am not against the transition.  

Maybe we ought to draft a bunch of secondary early next year.  We are going to need it.  

But you can draft this kid and just sign a Quality DE in FA.. That gives you pass Rush next year.. Instead of trying to change a whole scheme with little to none of the pieces needed for it. 

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Would make a lot of sense, IMO.

Shaq at ILB could allow for him to explode and make full use of his athleticism. Kawann Short at DE in a 3-4 could also be a great fit and it usually is easier these days to find productive 3-4 edge rushers in the draft than traditional 4-3 ends.

Who knows, maybe Vernon Butler can finally emerge as a 3-4 DE.

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29 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

But you can draft this kid and just sign a Quality DE in FA.. That gives you pass Rush next year.. Instead of trying to change a whole scheme with little to none of the pieces needed for it. 

Maybe.  I just think we have almost as many missing pieces of a 4-3 than we do a 3-4. And if we were going to make that change this would be the year.  A hybrid defense would be awesome.

To be clear, the thing that really intrigued me about this is some freshness to our old stale defense.  

 

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12 minutes ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

Maybe.  I just think we have almost as many missing pieces of a 4-3 than we do a 3-4. And if we were going to make that change this would be the year.  A hybrid defense would be awesome.

To be clear, the thing that really intrigued me about this is some freshness to our old stale defense.  

 

Cool let's be real.. The idea of seeing something different no matter how bad it is interesting.. I'd rather be good next year thoe.. 

The rest of your statement is utterly false..  We are 2 quality DE and some secondary pieces away from a good 43 defense..

We are atleast 6 players away from even playing a 3/4 let alone it being a avg. Defense..

 

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29 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Cool let's be real.. The idea of seeing something different no matter how bad it is interesting.. I'd rather be good next year thoe.. 

The rest of your statement is utterly false..  We are 2 quality DE and some secondary pieces away from a good 43 defense..

We are atleast 6 players away from even playing a 3/4 let alone it being a avg. Defense..

 

Your probably right.  I just want a competitive defense.  

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On 1/11/2019 at 8:24 PM, Hammerin'Cam1 said:

That's just pure speculation at this point. I don't think we view Peppers who has 159.5 career sacks the same as we see Thomas Davis who has a clear replacement in Shaq already on the team.

really? we let go of peppers too... 58 is in on more plays, def. got more going for him.

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On 1/11/2019 at 6:03 PM, Ship said:

Interesting. Definitely seems like there are a lot more OLB pass rush guys out there as prospects than true stud DEs.

DE: short

NT: poe

DE: butler

OLB: rookie

MLB: shaq

MLB: Luke

OLB: FA or someone who can covert on the team

Butler?  Better a first round DE. Wouldn't Haynes be worth a look at OLB?  Is Love behind Poe or Poe behind Love?  Are neither of our two rookie LB worthy OLB material?

DE: short/Addison

NT: poe/love

DE: rookie/Butler

OLB: Haynes

MLB: shaq

MLB: Luke

OLB: FA or LB on roster

 

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13 minutes ago, Glitchh said:

Butler?  Better a first round DE. Wouldn't Haynes be worth a look at OLB?  Is Love behind Poe or Poe behind Love?  Are neither of our two rookie LB worthy OLB material?

DE: short/Addison

NT: poe/love

DE: rookie/Butler

OLB: Haynes

MLB: shaq

MLB: Luke

OLB: FA or LB on roster

 

The reality of that situation is an awful 3-4 defense  Luke, Poe, and Short are the only ones that fit at all. And Short probably is not even a good fit 

Edited by Moo Daeng

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It would be interesting if we switched to a 3-4. Don't think we have the players to fit that scheme since we really don't have any speed rushers, but it is much easier to draw up creative blitzes with a 3-4 than a 4-3 IMO. Guessing it would be Addison, Poe, Short on the dline, Luke and Shaq as MLBs, and not sure who would be OLBs (maybe Carter and draft picks/FAs). A 3-4 would have been better when we had Star because he was a great run stuffer and drew a lot of double teams.

 

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Addison would be an OLB. Hes nowhere close to being a 3-4 DE. Those guys typically go 290 lbs on the low side 

Edited by Moo Daeng

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12 hours ago, Sub Zero said:

Cool let's be real.. The idea of seeing something different no matter how bad it is interesting.. I'd rather be good next year thoe.. 

The rest of your statement is utterly false..  We are 2 quality DE and some secondary pieces away from a good 43 defense..

We are atleast 6 players away from even playing a 3/4 let alone it being a avg. Defense..

 

For discussion sake, what 6 pieces are we away from in a 3-4 defense?

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8 hours ago, Moo Daeng said:

Addison would be an OLB. Hes nowhere close to being a 3-4 DE. Those guys typically go 290 lbs on the low side 

Correct. It would be Butler, Poe, Short. 

- 5-Technique Defensive End 

Size, length (reach) and strength to play the “2-gap” technique versus offensive tackles with the athletic ability to align as a “1-gap” defender. These players are space-eaters who keep blockers from getting to the second level while also disrupting protection schemes up front.

The Texans’ J.J. Watt (6’5”, 290 lbs), 49ers’ Justin Smith (6’4”, 285 lbs) and Jets’ Muhammad Wilkerson (6’4”, 310 lbs) are prime examples of 5-technique defensive ends with the ideal skill set/size to produce at the position in the NFL game.

 

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13 minutes ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

For discussion sake, what 6 pieces are we away from in a 3-4 defense?

Imo.. 3 OLB, 2 DE, and a backup NT...  Maybe 1 ILB .. But that again is just the front 7.. We still need 2 secondary players maybe 3 if we don't resign Reid..

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I'd love it. One reason our pass rush has faltered is because we can't find any good DE's to fit our scheme. One reason for that is because more and more colleges are going to the 3-4 now. The best pass rushers at the college level are starting to rely on speed and athleticism as opposed to strength and power. You'll see now, even with this draft most of the best pass rushers are labeled as "EDGE" players as opposed to DE's. I think the route to building a great pass rush again could be through a 3-4.

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