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Lev Parnas Interview with Maddow

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4 minutes ago, Wes21 said:

If liberals were all about "progress" I could get on the train.  However, some of the things they've chosen to hitch their wagon to are taking us backwards...not forwards.

Do you mean Democrats?  The British equivalent to the conservative party?  =P

No one is perfect, but generally speaking, the are moving things forward in this country more so than the others who want to pull us back to 1958.

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13 minutes ago, Wes21 said:

If liberals were all about "progress" I could get on the train.  However, some of the things they've chosen to hitch their wagon to are taking us backwards...not forwards.

Please elaborate

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8 minutes ago, d-dave said:

Do you mean Democrats?  The British equivalent to the conservative party?  =P

No one is perfect, but generally speaking, the are moving things forward in this country more so than the others who want to pull us back to 1958.

"No one is perfect" is just a cop out for putting in bad policies.  Doing something just for the sake of doing something is dumb and leads to a string of unintended consequences.  Liberals do dumb chit and then say "well it would have worked if..." and start finger pointing.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions.  I don't question the intent of alot of liberals (even though some are shady), but the idea that you can fix everything with new rules all the time is backwards thinking. 

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2 minutes ago, Wes21 said:

"No one is perfect" is just a cop out for putting in bad policies.  Doing something just for the sake of doing something is dumb and leads to a string of unintended consequences.  Liberals do dumb chit and then say "well it would have worked if..." and start finger pointing.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions.  I don't question the intent of alot of liberals (even though some are shady), but the idea that you can fix everything with new rules all the time is backwards thinking. 

Let me know when there is a perfect political party.  They are all imperfect, and all will put forth bad policies with good ones.

Also, let's not pretend that it's only liberals who point fingers.  Conservatives point plenty of fingers.  Everyone does it.

Finally, humanity needs rules to survive.  Without limits, creativity and culture will stifle.  I don't see a problem with many of the liberal rules regarding the environment, labor practices, healthcare etc.  Mistakes will be made, but doing something is better than nothing.  When you are in a body of water, you have to keep moving to keep from drowning.

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1 minute ago, d-dave said:

Let me know when there is a perfect political party.  They are all imperfect, and all will put forth bad policies with good ones.

Also, let's not pretend that it's only liberals who point fingers.  Conservatives point plenty of fingers.  Everyone does it.

Finally, humanity needs rules to survive.  Without limits, creativity and culture will stifle.  I don't see a problem with many of the liberal rules regarding the environment, labor practices, healthcare etc.  Mistakes will be made, but doing something is better than nothing.  When you are in a body of water, you have to keep moving to keep from drowning.

There is no such thing as a perfect party, which is why they need to keep their hands OFF of some things and have a light finger on the scale with others. 

We have tons of rules.  But again, you are using cop out language of "mistakes will be made."  So your boys put in chit rules with tons of bad consequences, and you just throw your hands up and say "well we tried."  Sometimes government just needs to stay out of it, or have a light touch instead of a heavy hand.  You can't create a rule for every damn thing.  So no, I disagree with "doing something is better than nothing."  Be smarter than that.

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1 minute ago, Wes21 said:

There is no such thing as a perfect party, which is why they need to keep their hands OFF of some things and have a light finger on the scale with others. 

We have tons of rules.  But again, you are using cop out language of "mistakes will be made."  So your boys put in chit rules with tons of bad consequences, and you just throw your hands up and say "well we tried."  Sometimes government just needs to stay out of it, or have a light touch instead of a heavy hand.  You can't create a rule for every damn thing.  So no, I disagree with "doing something is better than nothing."  Be smarter than that.

So what rules are you talking about?  Also, do you think that if it's not "perfect" it's better off not being done?  I'm really interested to see what your specifics are regarding bad rules and their consequences.

I do agree, that the government should be left out of many things, but others it is necessary to intercede like in the cases of discrimination, violence, keeping the powerful from subjugating those below them, ensuring a level playing field, etc.

The United State of America always strives to be a "more perfect union" and that acknowledges that mistakes will be made, but it's up to the people and our government to learn from them.  If we don't, then we are doomed to repeat mistakes of the past.

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9 minutes ago, d-dave said:

I don't see a problem with many of the liberal rules regarding the environment, labor practices, healthcare etc.  Mistakes will be made, but doing something is better than nothing.  When you are in a body of water, you have to keep moving to keep from drowning.

That’s actually my biggest concern with bernie this election cycle. He’s pushing the envelop for liberal causes forcing all Candidates to amend their policy toward these. That in itself isn’t a bad thing obviously, they are things that need to get rectified. 

However, in this political climate the fact that the disappointment level/let down among supporters of bernie or any candidate running on these policies is going to be crushing. Yes, we all know political candidates all make promises they can’t keep. That’s just part of the political game. 

But that brings me to root of this issue. If the democrats/leftist/socialist win the presidency but fail to take the senate. Literally every concept these candidates are running on will be at a standstill and not get enacted.

Yes, if they democrats take the senate it would appear to be a blank check but the way the candidates are proposing to pay for things will simply not fly with a majority of the senate(probably house too). We’ll see if we get there. 

So if the republicans hold the senate. Every promise made can be kissed goodbye, in reality. Even if the executive order route was used the amount of judges the republicans have installed and the places where they will challenge it will be basically what the democrats have done to trump on executive social issue orders. But the kicker is the republicans will hold the Supreme Court. So unless John Roberts swings more moderate. It’s never going to happen. 

That’s the sad truth. That’s not even getting to the looming recession. The fact trumps government is multiplying debt at an obscene rate. Two biggest things the next president will have to face. 

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4 minutes ago, d-dave said:

So what rules are you talking about?  Also, do you think that if it's not "perfect" it's better off not being done?  I'm really interested to see what your specifics are regarding bad rules and their consequences.

I do agree, that the government should be left out of many things, but others it is necessary to intercede like in the cases of discrimination, violence, keeping the powerful from subjugating those below them, ensuring a level playing field, etc.

The United State of America always strives to be a "more perfect union" and that acknowledges that mistakes will be made, but it's up to the people and our government to learn from them.  If we don't, then we are doomed to repeat mistakes of the past.

You are the one dropping in the idea of perfection as a straw man.  I never even implied that perfection needs to be achieved...and I never would.  Why?  Because there is literally no such thing as perfection.  People are not only different, but we have competing interests.

The devil is in the details.  Its easy to sit on a perch and say "well I'm against discrimination!"  Cool, that's an easy one for most people.  But what "rules" are you going to put into place to stop it?  Some are good.  Some are neutral.  Some have direct consequences and some have unintended consequences.  But in the end, even with a subject as easy to get on board with as anti-discrimination...the government should only get involved to a certain degree.  Adding new rules constantly in order to "move the ball forward" is not the answer, and you eventually end up with a regressive situation...not progressive.  It gets even more complicated and potentially harmful when you are constantly creating new rules for concepts like "keeping the powerful from subjugating those below them" and "ensuring a level playing field."

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