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Happy Panther

Nashville tells Billionaire ro pay for his own damn stadium.

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Additionally, as one article notes, the money spent on football is substitute money meaning it is money that would have been spent on other entertainment such as movies, restaurants, other sports. You can't just say every dollar increases tax revenue.

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On 2/14/2020 at 10:11 AM, Jon Snow said:

This goes on in every state and it's not limited to pro sports teams.  Taxpayers money is thrown in on all kinds of privately owned endeavors.   If you only knew how your tax money is spent on building infrastructure for private companies you would be shocked.  That's all I'm going to say about that.

The problem is that if one state does provides those breaks, and another does not, then the state that doesn't give the breaks falls behind.  Fewer high paying jobs, fewer jobs period. Smaller tax base to provide funding for education, roads, etc... which cause the state to fall even futher behind.  There was a term used to describe North Carolina back in the 1800's.  That being the rip van winkle state, because the belief was that due to our unwillingness to spend money on infrastructure, and to accept federal funds for various projects, we fell behind States like Tn and Virginia.  And there is some element of truth in it.  The state had some of the worst infrastructure in the early period of the US and partially due to this, it fell behind.  Many of the states best and brightest left for better opportunities elsewhere.  

Now, that doesn't mean I believe that the state or local government should spend money on a football team, but we should be clear that if we don't, that increases the likelihood that the team will eventually move somewhere else that will provide those benefits. 

Edited by Davidson Deac II

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On 2/14/2020 at 7:57 AM, Khyber53 said:

Sounds like they reshuffled the funding to make it sound better for the locality, but there's a lot of people's tax money that will go to provide welfare for a professional sports team and a massively wealthy team owner.

Meantime, local schools are struggling for funding, potholes don't get filled and police are underfunded and overworked. But hey, soccer, amiright? 

People tax money also go to drug users and people abusing the system having tons of kids, corruption...billions and billions of dollars, and lets not forget 100 BILLION a year for religion even though on paper they’re a profitable business it every sense of the word. I could go one and on...this couple hundred million is not even worth mentioning on the subject. 

Edited by onmyown

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1 hour ago, Happy Panther said:

Additionally, as one article notes, the money spent on football is substitute money meaning it is money that would have been spent on other entertainment such as movies, restaurants, other sports. You can't just say every dollar increases tax revenue.

True enough, but on the other hand, football brings in outside money as well.  I don't live in the Charlotte area, but I come to at least two games a year.  Paying for parking, gas, food etc... And I85 and 77 North out of Charlotte are packed with cars after the game lets out.  Far more so than on a normal sunday.  

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On 2/14/2020 at 9:59 AM, Pantherzack179812 said:

No city will pay for an MLS stadium. Their fans are not loyal enough yet (in my opinion, statistics may show otherwise). The NFL draws 10,000-20,000 away fans to cities per game. The people who say stadiums don't bring money to the city. If a stadium lasts 30 years and each individual pays $25 in sales tax per game (Ticket sales tax alone is usually 10-30dollars) $25x72,000=1,800,000x 10.2 home games (.2 for every playoff game once in a blue moon)= 18,000,000x30=540,000,000 million dollars. Property tax from the stadium in BOA was 87 million this year, add that for 30 years= 2,610,000,000 billion dollars from the team (It will go up for a new facility). Hotel tax I'm not even going to try to calculate.

So just off sales tax and property tax, the city over thirty years incurs 1.2 billion in fees for a 2.4 billion dollar stadium. 

Receives: 540,000,000 million dollars in tax revenue (not even accounting for the inflation and higher prices that will be received later)

2,610,000,000 Billion dollars (And that is on the LOW end, I'm giving the low estimate for arguments sake.

Last I checked 3,150,000,000>1,200,000,000. 

Stanford may be smart, but they can't do math. Now, let's factor in economic benefit from Montley Crue, The Rolling Stones, Billy Joel,  Garth Brooks.

Average ticket price= $200x0.07= 14x72,000x4= 4,032,000x30=120,960,000.... I love how everyone basis the argument of stadiums aren't worth it based off one Stanford study from one guy, then can't think for themselves.

All these estimates are low numbers, will the city see their 1.2 billion back in 10 years? Probably not, but I'm pretty sure that your average NFL city doesn't want to lose their team. Short sited it is a TERRIBLE investment. But if the stadium stays 30 years, there is NO way they at least don't get 100% of what they put out back.

MLS they shouldn't pay CRAP. I would argue if Michael Jordan asked for a new stadium, the NBA would leave Charlotte though as it should. But explain to me how the city should make David Tepper and the NFL pay 2.4-3 billion for a new stadium that they will gain 3,150,000,000+120,960,000=3,270,960,000‬  for?  

Those who say make the billionaire pay show exactly why they probably have less then $100,000 in the bank with a mortgage, the billionaire got there by wheeling and dealing. The city SHOULD pay up because SOMEONE else would. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

The Chiefs play in a smaller, colder, older city, in a decrepit stadium built in 1972.  But they signed Tyreek Hill, Frank Clark, et al, and won the whole fu(king thing.

The Panthers jettisoned their All-Pro DE whose absence hasn’t been replaced.  Fans were still able to watch the Panthers get steamrolled in a perfectly capable stadium built state of the art in 1996.

The Los Angeles and Las Vegas threats are no more.

By your rationale, Charlotte should instead build a MLB Stadium to lure the Rays or expansion, for the 81 home games, 162 TV broadcasts, and other special events.

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On 2/15/2020 at 1:41 AM, GRWatcher said:

@Pantherzack179812 I see your reasoning. But I just want to point out that, of the Charlotte sales tax, 4.75% is the state's, 2% is the county+city and .5% is for public transportation. 7.25% is not all NC state revenue.  https://www.avalara.com/taxrates/en/state-rates/north-carolina/cities/charlotte.html

And of "property" taxes, the largest and what you are talking to are real property taxes They are levied, collected and used by the localities not the state. "There is no state property tax in North Carolina, which means tax rates are determined entirely by local governments."    https://smartasset.com/taxes/north-carolina-property-tax-calculator

Unless you're using the term "state" to cover all government entities which is just weird and therefore doesn't cover how a city or county alone will recoup their money.

I guess somebody should've spent more than 5 minutes of google research on taxes before exclaiming that a bunch of professionals are wrong in their probably months-long research articles

  • Pie 3

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