top dawg

Well actually Buffalo took a swing and paid Diggs. I don't blame them. Diggs was on the upswing. He not only had solid production on his resumé, but he was also a legit scoring threat and had displayed absolutely superior route running. On the flipside of that, Minnesota did not pay him and drafted Justin Jefferson who had a great rookie year, and looks to be every bit of the route runner and playmaker that Diggs is, and may be legitimately better. Now, I could be wrong--because it's an opinion--but I'd say that Minnesota got the better value and probably better receiver in that equation. But, we'll see. On an off note, I will tell you this: if Ja'Marr Chase is somehow there at 8 when we're on the clock, don't be surprised if we don't run to the podium with his name on the card. He is the real deal!

Saying that Lance played against "nobody" is disrespectful to the FCS (and it's also saying, in some sense, that he played with "nobody"), but saying he produced "little" is really akin to a lie. If "nothing" suggested that he was "even equal" to Fields as an athlete, then he wouldn't be receiving first round grades from some perennial evaluators and scouts, much less ranked ahead of Fields by some of them. I know that you must have seen people say this before, but I'll say it yet again: Evaluating QBs is all about trying to isolate traits and project how well these traits will translate to the next level. So regardless of what you think about his level of competition, when juxtaposed against the traits he displayed, it isn't the litmus test in evaluating. Lastly, the reasons I have seen people like McShay or Cosell (among others) rank Lance just a little over Fields is mainly due to his processing speed. They are perceived as similar athletes, but Lance has the strongest arm in this class, seems like a more natural and gifted runner, and has better pocket awareness. He's smoother in the pocket when things begin to break down, and he called his own protections in a pro-style offense. He has that over Lance (and any QB draft prospect this year). You and @Shocker and company may not agree with the reasoning, but there's no reason to just keep asking why. Just disagree!

First off, I'm about tired of some of you not getting the point. We're not kids here. The point is should we re-sign Moore at somewhere presumably near 18-20-ish mil per year (maybe more with market inflation). The Giants paid Kenny Golladay 18 mil a year. The next best offer for his services was reportedly between 11-12 million. The Giants overpaid when no one else was willing to even get close to that! It is my opinion that Moore is a good receiver. His production has been good (and, no, I'm not going to split hairs about QBs because most receivers have to play with imperfect QBs). D.J. has been good, but not great. That's just what it is. "Great" in reference to Moore can only be found on the Huddle. He's a good receiver that opposing DCs aren't overly concerned with game planning for at this point in his career. Whether he'll take another step remains to be seen, but if he does, he's going to have to improve upon his route running, and make himself a more consistent target. He only has 10 TDs in three years! You can't attribute all of that to QB play. Being that he is good, he deserves a good contract, just not a great one. If he comes out and dominates games consistently this coming season and has a season like Golladay in 2019 or maybe even a Justin Jefferson 2020 type of season, then we can talk about that great money, but if his 2021 season is the same as his last three, then you have to ask, "Are we going to pay D.J. top dollar even though he's never played to top-dollar level?" For me, it's as simple as that! if you guys don't like it--well I would prefer that you actually understand the argument--tough! We don't have to agree on everything, but at least try and understand the argument.

So, you're all-in on Darnold then?

Numbers are indicators, but they don't tell the entire story. I'll know if he's a franchise QB if I see him making the throws that it takes to win and playing within the offense when juxtaposed against what the defense is giving him. One of the more important things I will personally be looking at is ball security which speaks to his pocket awareness and field vision. If he isn't a fumble waiting to happen when pressured, or throwing to the interceptions to the opposition on a consistent basis, then his growth and development will become obvious, and that's the main thing I'll be looking for, which will naturally translate to a franchise QB's efficiency as it pertains to numbers (but not necessarily a specific number in a particular category). Basically, I'll know if he's the real deal when I see it. The numbers will naturally fall in line.

If you can't understand the point, you certainly can't understand context. That's why you keep making poo up and using hyperbole, straw man fallacy, or outright lies to address a point that's not even the point of the thread. If the only thing that you can do is continue the bullsh¡t, then I'm talking to you.

I really want that to happen, but I would hate missing out on Sewell or Slater. I'm not sure if getting one of the big uglies would indicate that we're intellectually all-in on Darnold as much as it simply says we'd be taking the BPA. On an off note, If Pitts or Chase is there and we pick one of them over Sewell or Slater, I don't believe that's necessarily an indicator that we're all-in on Darnold either.

I gotta give it to ya. That's the juice right there!

Oh, I see. Your issue is that you believe that your dumbass, illogical context of comparing Moore to all the Panthers receivers in team history (when we've really only had one legit WR1) is better than comparing him to the best receivers in the game today, especially as it relates to whether or not he should be paid like one and how much. Got ya! You're the one interjecting your opinion into a conversation that you don't even know what the point is just to hear yourself speak because you don't like that I think that Moore (or any receiver) should play like a top 5 receiver in order to get paid like one.

Why? Because I said that D.J. Moore needs to play like a top 5 receiver, including having impeccable route running and making himself a scoring threat, in order to get top 5 money? Get over yourself!

He's been consistently good, not great! Adams, Hopkins, Diggs, Jones are unquestionably consistent impact players every time they step on to the field. You must account for them or pay the price on any given play. You might as well pencil Justin Jefferson in also. Tyreek Hill, Michael Thomas, are in the same class. Even older heads like Keenan Allen and Allen Robinson are likely in a higher tier. Skeletor (DK Metcalf) is probably headed that way. There are a few others that many would rightfully consider ahead of Moore, so I don't see all this underrated business. He's likely in the vicinity of where most NFL types would rank him.

Deshaun Watson is legit offseason news, and as some of you well know, this news and other NFL news is posted right here in this forum, and should be! It's arguably the biggest news of the offseason, and no one should have to go searching for it in another forum. Behave yourselves and take in the news, and there's no reason why it should even be considered for the sometimes train wreck that is the Tinderbox. It's pretty simple: if you don't want to see the subject matter in a thread, don't open it, much less complain about it being in the traditional place for all NFL news during the offseason.

I'm pro-Moore too. I just want more from Moore. If he's going to get top 5 money, be should be putting up top 5 stats, especially on a consistent basis.

That's funny! I just assumed they were like three feet the way a lot of people are talking. Sewell is young and athletic and hasn't reached his ceiling. I heard one scout say that they don't see how Slater can get much better (which was supposed to be a negative). I don't know about that, but Slater looks better to me right now, and I know there's still room for improvement.

Moore is probably realistically somewhere around 20th. If he improves upon his route running and scoring, he'd be ranked higher. I had higher hopes for D.J., just like I had higher hopes for Cam. Cam never took the leap before he got hurt. He was always an athletic freak that used his athleticism to get over, but never honed his skills to the elite level. I'm starting to see DJ the same way. He can be great in spurts, but not on a consistent basis over time.

Justin Jefferson! And it's not even close!

If Pitts or Chase falls to us, it will be a very tough call.

All options are on the table.

I don't have a crap about showboating. What I do give a crap about is route running, beating the press, making yourself a target, and catching the ball. Moore is not even as good of a route runner as Robby, much less 89. As for Robby in year five, he has never been the guy and wasn't really expected to be. He came into the league as a UDFA to arguably the worst and most dysfunctional franchise in the league. Moore has always been the presumptive X receiver, and has gotten those type of opportunities. As far as expectations and progression goes Robby has exceeded and continues to get better. Most are hoping that Moore will markedly grow as well. Even if he doesn't, maybe he will get paid like he has, but that doesn't mean he's heads and shoulders above Robby.

Slater is a bulldozer and may be the most technically advanced OT in the draft. Those short arms are the knock, but there have been great LTs with short arms.

You better hope that someone doesn't blow us away with an offer with Fitt's thinking. I mean with other OTs like Darrisaw, Radunz and Cosmi waiting later.

Not exactly a news flash. I've heard that for days.

Teddy's play was arguably more a weakness for Robby's strengths than Moore's. DJ is beginning to look like a receiver who has hit his ceiling. Robby had his best year (and in fact was 7th in the entire league for YAC last season).

Our O-line was largely on the low end of middle of the road. It needs to be top 10. We already know that Moton is one of the best in the league. Paradis improved this season to slightly above average, and would likely continue to improve with better interior linemen. Adding Sewell or Slater would be a benefit, but I don't think we'll be any worse than last year with the added depth.

DJ hasn't proven that he's the much better receiver overall. Until he does, he's right there in the same class as Anderson. And, look, I'm not saying that he isn't a more talented receiver in theory, but he's got to turn the corner this season with route running, putting himself in scoring positions and sticking the catch (and maybe even blocking).