MasterAwesome

Also what is "0 pressures, 0 QB hits" referring to? We apparently allowed 0 pressures but 15 hurries? What is the distinction there?

And who is going to find and hire that guy? If not Tepper, then someone Tepper decides to give that responsibility to. Either way, it's unavoidable that Tepper will be involved in some capacity.

Even if we overpaid for him relative to the market, he's undeniably been a steal so far. He's 33rd in salary for WRs, but 4th in receptions, 11th in yards, and tied for 5th in TDs. And as patient as I am with Bryce, there's no denying that he has missed an open Thielen on a ton of plays.

I'm down with Bruce Young. I can already feel his warm gentle smile melting away all my stress.

I think PFF is generally useful for more abstract positions that are harder to evaluate on a snap by snap basis. So how well individual o-linemen did in the run + pass game, how CBs held up in coverage when the ball wasn't thrown to their receiver, how well WRs ran their routes and created separation when they weren't the target, how well DEs set the edge on run plays, etc. But I don't think anyone relies on PFF to tell them how a QB looked when they handle the ball on every single snap and are the focal point of the offense. It'll be pretty obvious whether a QB had a good or bad game.

I agree that a QB who needs everything to be perfect around him to succeed is not a franchise guy. But is any part of his supporting cast even "average"? Can we even confidently say that? Seems to be 0 for 3 on o-line, receiving corps, and coaching for anyone watching the games. I feel like the "everything perfect" argument is a pretty big strawman. How about we just simply start with one good group around him and see how that goes? Surely there's a reasonable middle ground between everything being bad and everything being perfect. I also get the "not flashing" argument although I'd say that's a pretty subjective and unreliable metric to hone in on. Personally I've seen some impressive "capital A Anticipation" throws (to borrow from my YouTube QB School courses) that I've been encouraged by. Is that enough? Hell no, but I'd at least qualify those as flashes, personally. If you or others don't, then that's perfectly understandable, hence the "subjective" characterization of what constitutes flashing.

So Tua and Fields weren't flashing and yet their teams still invested significantly in them? I feel like the two examples you picked are at completed odds with your argument. Hell, we've been back and forth quite a bit about Fields but he's looked good these past two weeks. Two weeks where the #1 receiver his team traded to acquire for him has gone a combined 361 yards and 4 TDs. It feels like you're supporting my argument that investing in your QB (regardless of how much they have flashed) can pay big dividends.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that a QB who went 2-7-1 "put the team on his back". I don't think you draft a QB 1st overall to simply look good while he's leading you to loss after loss. If Burrow is this truly elite #1 overall pick who elevates everyone around him, then by the logic conveyed on these boards, Cincinnati wouldn't have spent the 5th overall pick in the next draft on a receiver for him. Because #1 overall pick QBs shouldn't need elite pieces around him to excel, apparently. My argument is that the expectation of a QB (even those taken #1 overall) shouldn't be to put a horrible team on his back.

Maybe "pedestrian" was harsh? But he looked like probably a middle-of-the-road starting QB. Not much better than an Andy Dalton his first few years in the league who is the QB he replaced up there. He didn't look like a #1 overall pick who immediately came in and elevated the team around him is all I'm saying, until he got his elite WR corps. That seems to be the standard we've placed on Bryce. Yes Bryce has clearly looked worse than Burrow his rookie year but this is specifically an argument about the expectations of #1 overall QB elevating an awful team around him.

Do you consider someone like Joe Burrow to be worthy of the #1 overall pick? He had pretty pedestrian numbers his rookie season before they went out and drafted arguably the best receiver in the league. I think he's probably got the best WR corps in the NFL, with Chase/Higgins/Boyd. Is he truly elevating the team around him? Even in college, his monster season came with Chase and Jefferson, who are arguably the top two receivers in the NFL today. He has never been successful without an absolute dominant WR corps. His o-line has been bad, yeah, but an elite group of WRs can help mitigate a bad o-line. Bryce has neither. I hear the Tua comp thrown around about how Bryce can be successful if you just hook him up with elite WRs, and the predictable response is "why does a #1 overall pick need everything to be absolutely perfect before he succeeds" but Joe Burrow is always left out of these conversations. It's okay to invest in your #1 overall pick QB, I don't understand the notion of him having to put the entire team on his back. Yeah we got spoiled with Cam doing that, but that's not normal.

There are a couple outside factors working against Bryce that have little to nothing to do with his individual performance. 1) People are bitter and spiteful that he was overhyped - on these boards, by the Panthers' organization, and in the general media. That's why you see comments like "But his S2!!!" and "but he's supposed to be the most NFL ready QB!!". It was the discourse surrounding Bryce that have annoyed people, particularly those who wanted Stroud or Richardson and had to listen to all the hype about how Bryce was going to immediately take the league by storm and he was the smartest QB to ever live. Understandable...but it is still spite-posting at the end of the day. 2) Stroud and Richardson's performances thus far. Both seem to have transitioned to the NFL relatively seamlessly and achieved immediate success. If those two have struggled similarly to Bryce, then we'd be a lot more patient on these boards. Although I think the hype around Richardson thus far should probably be suppressed a bit because man those injuries are piling up. Who would've thought the absolute tank of a QB would be the one experiencing an unrelenting barrage of injuries less than a third of the way into his rookie season. Knee/ankle, concussion, and now shoulder. But hey maybe the Colts are just faking it to have an excuse to play Minshew (wink wink...kidding).

Is this not the thing he said immediately after we drafted Bryce and then we were all like "Oh great, sounds like we're drafting all defense with the rest of our picks" and then we immediately take Mingo with our next pick at the top of the 2nd? If so, then it was clearly a smokescreen at the time.

I'd put Jeudy in roughly the same tier of WR as a guy like Chark. Talented, has shown he can be a good receiver, but is ultimately injury prone. And we got Chark in the offseason for a modest price, rather than trading assets. I mean, even their injury analytics (for what it's worth) look nearly identical. Jeudy looks like he's on the road to becoming part cyborg on that left side. And while I'm in agreement on needing WR help, this feels like an impulsive over-correction. Trading away DJ Moore and then quickly scrambling to trade for someone who can maybe replace his role. Feels similar to 2016 when we let Josh Norman go and then scrambled to draft back to back corners in the draft to hopefully replace him. We got fortunate with Bradberry, but it was still a move reeking of desperation.

Just in case I get banned for bullying LinvilleGorge (k00L a@# username btw), I appreciate you brother. I want you to have my stash of crusty Playboys under my mattress if I disappear.

Lol I just saw this cause Linville likes to sheepishly call people out without quoting them, so it's easy to miss it. First off, of course I'm not embarrassed because there quite objectively wasn't anything incorrect about what I said. It's not my fault you can't follow a basic "If-Then" statement. It's not a prediction. The fact that you guys thought to dredge up this comment as an example of me putting my foot in my mouth actually makes me considerably more cocky, not embarrassed. Like damn, this is really what you think you got me on? If your objective was to humble me, you very much did the opposite. But more importantly, why the hell would I want you to take my *username* seriously? That's actually hilarious. I couldn't care less what you think of my username because I myself couldn't care less about my username or anyone's username. That's the point...I made this account a dozen years ago based off my Xbox Live account that I made when I was a teenager Sure it's cringey, much like an adult who critiques internet usernames. If I knew legit 40-year-olds were going to bully me about it then I would've made something cooler like "Fingerblaster69" or something. I know for those who are terminally online and whose very identity is in many ways tied to their username because their lives revolve around this message board, it's hard to wrap your head around that sentiment. I remember seeing a little while back that you were at a UNC football game but the entire time your head was in your phone rage-posting a play-by-play commentary in the Huddle gamethread. That pretty much sums you up as a person. Over 67,000 posts on an internet message board and I'm the one who should be embarrassed...about my username. To that I can only say..."oh wee mayne".

Yeah...I was about to say, we're talking about a sample size of 3-4 passes at this point. This is where a tiny bit of critical thinking goes a long way. One of the prevailing criticisms here has been that Young isn't attempting deep throws (which is valid). Depending on who you ask, Bryce has attempted somewhere between 1 deep pass (according to LG) and 4 deep passes on the season. Now we're saying Bryce is one of the worst graded deep throwers in the NFL. Both can be factual...but just take a second and think about the interaction between those statements. If Bryce is 0 for 3 on deep passes for the season, then of course he's going to be graded extremely poorly. Also, most of us agree that Bryce's deep throw to TMJ in Week 1 would have been on the money if he hadn't slowed down on his route. But I imagine PFF doesn't operate on hypotheticals like that and simply record that as an inaccurate throw. I'm pretty sure their assessment is more of a "catchable" vs. "uncatchable" ball. Clearly that pass was uncatchable. It's like saying after Week 1: "Yo Josh Allen is on pace to throw 17 TDs and 51 interceptions!!". Technically true...but yes, sample size does matter.

Did you need me to highlight the key word in my post for you? (Hint: it’s right in the beginning)

There's a 15-page thread dedicated to literally just that one play, so it's wild that you feel compelled to derail this thread to singularly focus on that one play again when there's a whole host of new insight and perspective being shared. Your disagreement with his characterization is well noted, you don't need to relitigate this silly trivial argument.

Can you key in on D'Shawn Jamison and give your general impressions? I'm curious about him because for me, the eye test was much more positive than his PFF grade, which had him as our worst rated player on defense. Also Doc Throck at RG.

I actually was pleasantly surprised with D'Shawn Jamison, considering he was an undrafted rookie that we asked to cover the best receiver in the NFL one-on-one (who is 4 inches taller) on multiple snaps lol. Even on the touchdown he gave up, he was right there step for step. But maybe he was getting constantly smoked on plays where the ball wasn't thrown to his side.

How do we know Carr went to the hospital after the game? Oh right, because Dennis Allen said so...and like you said, coaches lie all the time. Did we get footage of Carr in the hospital? Did we get his hospital bracelet at least? Here's what I think happened...Carr was on a short leash after a lackluster start to the season (25th in the league in scoring). He wanted to give Derek Carr one half of football to see if he could pick it up. Then when Carr struggled to put up points again in the first half against the Packers, he waited until he took his third sack to have an excuse to soft bench Carr and give Jameis the opportunity to see if he could move the ball any better. "Oooo that sack looked kinda gnarly, no one will bat an eye if we say he got injured. *in his earpiece* Hey Derek! Stay down and writhe around in pain a little bit. I'll explain later". Unfortunately Jameis was kinda meh too which is why Allen is still non-commital on which QB he wants to use moving forward. So in the meantime while he's buying himself time to decide, he faked that Carr went to the hospital. He got his doctors to lie about it and pretend they did X-rays. And now he's putting Carr through practice and designating him as "Questionable" until Allen decides who he wants to play. *I don't actually believe any of the above, but hey it's pretty easy to come up with a theory. And this one is just as valid and credible as yours. Can you disprove anything I said? If not, then sorry but it's the truth. Sorry, I mean it is my educated guess.

I'm expecting top-notch analysis from you, so I'm paying you your beer in advance. But I WILL retract it if it's not up to standard.

I just can't buy into Scenario 2 at all...that seems like the quickest way to destroy Bryce's confidence. "Hey we're gonna pretend you have an ankle injury so we can get your trash ass off the field". It's very possible that it was such a minor sprain that he could have played last week but they chose to play it safe and sit him, and maybe a part of that is because of a hostile environment, an outmatched o-line, etc. but to outright manufacture an injury for him is an awful thing to do to Bryce's psyche. I don't think even Rhule is that dumb to think that would be a net positive.

Lol yeah I was expecting him to be at the top of the list before I even clicked the thread. People were saying during/after that game that we signed the wrong Bengals safety, so that might have been premature if Bell turns out to be really solid for us. Bell feels like probably the more consistent, but less flashy player. Bates seems like more of a gambler who will make some big game-changing plays but potentially also give up some big ones if he takes a risk jumping a route.

I apparently need to brush up on my NFL safeties because I legit haven't heard of half of these guys.