SmokinwithWilly

Dude. You seem a little triggered here. Sadly the fan base has been right more often than not over the past 6 years about major decisions the Panthers FO has made. You don't necessarily have to look at the player, you have to look at the tendencies of the front office. Players with high RAS scores that need a lot of development in early rounds. Development isn't something we've really excelled at. Paying big FA contracts for guys that were not good. JMO, but I think we've reading the flow of the drafts poorly and drafted out of panic several times and been at the tail end of runs instead of the beginning. I also think we've built the team poorly by constantly "retooling" instead of just embracing a rebuild. We've paid positions in FA we should have been drafting, and trying to fill key spots with draft picks because we have no other option from bad contracts. Bryce is not the QB I wanted. I still think we overpaid. I wanted AR with the right coach, but that wasn't Frank, so my then my default was Stroud. We started him when he had no business starting, which was made obvious in Seattle, and then doubled down the rest of the season to prolonged failure. Then this off-season he was handed the keys with no competition for a performance that was cut worthy except for his draft position. The last 3 games haven't proven anything to me yet. Even mediocre QBs have had short stretches of good games. We're going to need season 3 to see if he can pull it all together and season 4 to make sure he's not Daniel Jones before offering a massive contract off a single good year. We've had enough bad contracts for 1 year wonders. I don't like how this team has been operating and the path they've taken to build. We're not replicating what successful teams do. The Tepper way hasn't worked for the past 6 years and there's been zero sustained success in franchise history. It's hard to criticize fans for being pessimistic or critical about the way things are done when they've never seen 9 wins back to back years in 3 decades.

We called it a bad pick then. It didn't make sense then. It makes less sense now. It is what it is. The real Panthers mantra.

Centers are overrated. Anyone can play center. They're about as interchangeable as RBs. No need to draft one when you can find one on another teams waiver wire or practice squad. They are even less valuable than RBs. At least that's been the argument every time I've suggested we draft one.

I get that. The statement was players ALWAYS chase the money and I was just pointing out it isn't always about making the most money. Players make decisions for different reasons. Could Horn be chasing the money? Sure. Could he be considering going somewhere else to play for a better team and a better chance at a ring? That's possible too. Could want to be in a different place to raise a family or maybe the Charlotte area is what he likes. I expect it to be a 100% business decision.

Wrong. Frankie Luvu walked out of here and we had offered him more money. Environment matters. Winning matters. Look at how many players played on reduced contracts to win a SB with Brady. Money isn't everything unless your team is a perpetual loser.

He's not the greatest and I think that showed after bRady left. Brady got another ring. BB turned that franchise into a train wreck. He's damn good, but there's no downplaying the huge part of his success that was TB12.

If he does come to the NFL I'd expect nothing less than the Raiders. I suspect the new team HQ would be moved to Circus Circus.

Bite your damn tongue. I got 3 bucks and change riding on the outcome.

Have him in 3 big money leagues that determine seeding this week.

If we could win by 1 and still have Barkley get 300 and 3td that'd be great....

If his arm had been out like he was trying to wrap up, I don't think it would have been a penalty because it was such a bang bang play and both players started moving down at almost the same time. Having that arm in like that changed the entire nature of the "tackle".

Probably going to depend on how severe that concussion is and if there are any lingering effects. A lot of guys recover, then you look at Oher and it ended his career. One of my close family members has post concussion syndrome and it didn't really show up in full until about 3 months after.

I see the need for both. XL's hands aren't great and maybe an off season on the jugs machine helps that. Coker has yet to be determined how good he's going to be though it does look promising. I've just always been a fan of that no name guy that puts on his cleats, knows where the 1st down marker is, and if you need 9 he gets you 9.1 almost every time. He's not getting 8-10 targets a game, maybe 2-3, but they're the important ones on 3rd down to keep the chains moving and the drive alive. Fresh set of downs to get that explosive guy the ball. JMO, but I think you have to have one of those guys in your receiving corps.

Hog mollies don't make good WRs and we all know how much Nippleshorts loved his hog mollies.

Call me crazy but I'd like a Bersin type guy in later rounds that can learn under AT the tricks about how to get open. Bersin wasn't flashy or fast, but he caught every damn thing thrown at him. Someone who's willing to go across the middle and take those hits and actually hang on to the damn ball is something I think we've been sorely missing for a while.

It's not all about Bryce. TMac helps any QB on our roster. We've crippled the defense this year to help Bryce and spent a ton of resources in the past 2 years to build around him. This needs to be about building a team. If Bryce gets drilled in the shoulder tomorrow and his career is over, having a well rounded offensive unit helps any QB, not just Bryce. We need a WR1 for any QB, not just Bryce. We've got to start playing the long game instead of the short game we've played for 3 decades.

Here's how it makes sense. Bryce or Brady, we need a #1 WR. TMac is an elite talent at a high position of need. It's about building a team, not just Bryce.

It's really only been 2 games. The NO team was so bad their coach was fired after the game and Chuba and the defense carried the team to the win against NY. He's played better but I'm not willing to crown him QB god yet. I want to see more than 2 games or even the rest of the season. I want a full 3rd season with the occasional clunker because it happens to every QB, even the great ones. I just need more than what we've seen to this point.

Even the Broncos fans I was watching with were calling BS. The league sent a clear message Cam was not going to be the face of the NFL and Peyton was going out a winner. Talib said he was trying to injure Philly Brown and got a 25k fine and NO players got a year suspension. It's not soft. It's rigged.

I was just getting ready to bring up the Thorpe award.

Maybe so. But we're going to need more than 2 games to declare him the next great one and not the next Kyle Allen.

So if Hunter and Tmac are both sitting there, who are you taking?

What we've been saying is that he may be the #1 prospect but being the top prospect doesn't necessarily mean he's the best fit. You've been hammering that he's going to be the Heisman winner, but as it turns out, that's not really a mark of future NFL success in the past couple of decades. You've also been going on about stats and those don't really matter as much as people think because of the talent disparity between colleges. NFL teams are much closer talent wise than colleges so you really have to start looking at the traits and skills vs numbers. Just because he's the #1 prospect doesn't mean he's going to be great in the NFL. Is he the best WR in the draft? Debatable. Best DB? Also debatable. We're looking at is he the best player at whichever position he decides to play and how is that going to translate to the NFL game? Is he going to fit in with whatever the coach or team is trying to do? Are there potential attitude problems? Are there issues with learning the playbook? Are there issues with any number of different things that goes into examining these players? These are the same questions you ask when you look at any potential prospect, 1 or 100. Tuka gave a very well thought out reason why he'd take TMac over Hunter at WR. WR on the outside vs WR in the slot. Arguments can be made for the success and drawbacks of both in different systems. The Giants already have Nabors. Would pairing him with Hunter or Tmac make more sense? There's going to be a new coach in NY. What type of offense is he going to run? Are they going to be looking for a QB in the draft or going FA? Would it make more sense to trade out of that spot and grab picks if another team wants to move up? He's also said “They said I couldn’t do it in college,” Hunter said. “I ended up doing it in college. So a lot of people telling me I can’t do it in the NFL, but I’m gonna still do it in the NFL.” That could be a potential problem if he doesn't want to listen to his coaches if they tell him no. You're talking he's the #1 college prospect. He is likely by a majority of scouts and media. What we're talking about is is he the #1 fit at WR or DB at the NFL level? Those are 2 very different things and are very debatable.

Do you see us keeping Horn? He's going to want that big contract and I don't know that you can give it to him given his injury history. Plus, depending on how we finish the season, he may not want to stay like Luvu. There's something to be said for being with a competitor. I think these last few games are really going to steer where we go in the draft.

He hasn't played a single snap in the NFL yet. Lots of prospects don't work out in the NFL for a variety of reasons. I've never said he's not good. I've never said he's not elite. I've said I don't know how well he will translate to the NFL for any number of reasons. You're giving him his statue and jacket already. I'm saying let him play the game before you pronounce him the next god of the NFL.