Mr. Scot

Hurney confirmed we had Carr rated above Peppers and would have taken him as the pick had we been in the #1 spot.

Calling you kid actually has nothing to do with who you prefer and more to do with the fact that you act like one. If all you did was advocate for Young, I doubt anybody would have an issue. What you do instead is accuse others of ulterior motives, tout your own supposed virtue and continuously play the victim. Rayzor was correct.

We've since traded away both

We're going to get the quarterback that the Panthers want. Whether or not it happens to be the quarterback that certain fans want is inconsequential.

No indication Lamar Jackson was ever even in consideration...

The vast majority of people I've seen preferring Stroud (myself included) generally add "but I'd be okay with Young". I've not seen all that many aggressively bash either one.

Draft Stroud and that problem likely takes care of itself

My hope as well...

It actually makes me nervous because historically, whenever the Panthers have had a choice between two players they've tended to take the wrong one (Kerry Collins over Steve McNair, Tshimanga Biakabutuka over Eddie George, etc) Of course, those were different Panthers organizations so I'm hoping this new version gets it right.

Or at least more alts

Icege and I only posted excerpts. The full article is actually much longer For me, I really enjoy reading and I love knowing behind the scenes stuff.

Can we ask who the alts are? (I'm sure we have a clue)

I was actually just preparing to post this Here's my version, with my own insights inserted: _____________________________________________ It was Friday, March 10, and some of the team’s top decision-makers — assistant GM Ian Cunningham, senior vice president/general counsel Cliff Stein and director of football administration Matt Feinstein — had gathered with Poles at the team’s home base in Lake Forest, Ill. “I was pacing back and forth, just all over the place,” Poles said. “I just wanted to get it done.” “It” would be the trade that shook up the NFL Draft, the trade that would alter the futures of the two organizations involved — and maybe those that weren’t. In Charlotte, GM Scott Fitterer was in his office with head coach Frank Reich, assistant GM Dan Morgan, VP of football administration Samir Suleiman and president Kristi Coleman, waiting to see if the Panthers secured the No. 1 pick for the first time since 2011 — the year they drafted an Auburn quarterback named Cam Newton. When the trade was finalized — just before happy hour in the East — Carolina had put itself in position to find a franchise quarterback. But the celebration was brief: The Panthers had to call their best offensive player and tell him he was being dealt to Chicago. You might note that this initial paragraph doesn't mention David Tepper, but a later one lets you know that he was in on things via conference call at the time this transaction was finalized. ... When the Panthers traded running back Christian McCaffrey to the 49ers on Oct. 21, there was talk about whether they were tanking for the top pick. But players rallied around Wilks, who leaned on his defense and a physical rushing attack led by D’Onta Foreman. That approach kept the Panthers competitive, and they traveled to Tampa Bay in Week 17 with first place in the NFC South on the line. As Carolina started winning, Fitterer understood he would need to get creative to position the Panthers for one of the top quarterback prospects in the 2023 draft. “Once you know you’re not gonna be in the top five, it’s, ‘OK, how we gonna get there?'” he said. “But let’s worry about that later. Let’s win now.” After losing to the Bucs, the Panthers beat the Saints in their regular-season finale to cap a 7-10 season and secure the No. 9 pick. “That’s when it gets more expensive,” Fitterer said. “What makes sense? Do you bridge it another year with another vet and keep building? But at some point, we had to fix it.” To be clear, tanking was never an option, and that's as it should be. Fitterer was on board with Wilks doing the best he could to win and agreed that he'd adjust on the fly to whatever happened. ... Chicago was open to sticking with quarterback Justin Fields and improving the roster around him before a critical evaluation year. The Bears didn’t have the second, third or fourth pick. They had the first. And, whether through media reports or just knowing the holes on other rosters, Poles, Cunningham and the rest of the Bears’ front office knew what teams needed. “It set up where it puts certain teams in need of a quarterback in certain spots,” Poles said. Poles took the information with him to the scouting combine in Indianapolis. The Panthers were the first team to reach out. “They were the first ones to kind of kick it off,” he said, “which tells you a lot.” Pretty clear the plan was always to be aggressive with this. ... Poles worked out of the Hyatt in downtown Indianapolis, away from the bustle of the JW Marriott complex and where other Bears staff members stayed. He said he “slow-played” things at first, then heard from Fitterer, whom he knew well from their days on the road as scouts. The two GMs met in Poles’ suite as the combine got underway on Monday, Feb. 27. Fitterer said the initial meeting lasted about 20 minutes. He realized fairly quickly he wouldn’t be able to make the jump from 9 to 1 with picks alone. Poles would later ask about several Panthers players, three of whom best fit some of the Bears’ needs. Neither GM would confirm it, but according to league sources with knowledge of the talks who were granted anonymity to discuss the deal without repercussions, Poles was interested in pass rusher Brian Burns, defensive tackle Derrick Brown and receiver D.J. Moore, all former first-round picks. “Usually young teams like that, they want all picks,” Fitterer said. “In (Poles’) situation, I think it helped that they had some cap space they needed to fill. And then they have a young quarterback that they need to figure out is he the guy going forward.” This confirms previous chatter about what players were being discussed as part of the trade. ... The Panthers’ first offer did not include a player, but Fitterer and Poles kept talking in Indianapolis, including twice at Lucas Oil Stadium. With little headway on an agreement, Fitterer pulled the offer on Sunday, March 5, before flying back to Charlotte the following day. A night after Fitterer’s first meeting with Poles, the team’s brass — including owners David and Nicole Tepper, Reich and quarterbacks coach Josh McCown — sat down with free-agent Derek Carr at the Marriott in downtown Indianapolis. Reich came away from the meeting impressed with the 32-year-old former Raiders quarterback. “Derek is an excellent leader. He’s an excellent passer,” Reich told reporters the next day. “He checks a lot of boxes that you’re looking for.” Interesting to note that at the time we were talking with Carr, we had taken our offer for the #1 pick off the table. Carr was a legitimate option, though as you'll see not the preferred one. ... But after renting a quarterback in each of Rhule’s three seasons, the Panthers were ready to go the draft-and-develop route, which Reich and Fitterer both had called the preferred approach. The Panthers had top-10 picks in three consecutive drafts in which they didn’t take a quarterback. They watched the Chargers draft Justin Herbert one spot ahead of them at No. 6 in 2020 and didn’t view Fields and Mac Jones or Kenny Pickett as worthy of a top-10 selection in 2021 or 2022, respectively. But Fitterer was more convicted about this year’s quarterback class and agreed to circle back with Poles in the days after the combine. Back in Charlotte, Fitterer continued to run through scenarios with Reich, Morgan and Suleiman, who handles player negotiations and salary-cap management. Likewise interesting to hear the retro information on prior drafts, especially regarding Fields and Pickett. That we liked this year as class better than previous ones (excluding Herbert) worked out in our favor. ... Whenever Bears head coach Matt Eberflus visited Poles’ office, he could see who was in play for the No. 1 pick and a detailed update on where negotiations stood. “(They) had everything up on the board so you could see every suitor that was there and look and weigh the options,” he said. There was more for Fitterer to sort through, too. He had discussions with Arizona and Seattle about the No. 3 and No. 5 picks, respectively. Fitterer spent two decades in the Seahawks’ front office and remains close with GM John Schneider, but the talks for the fifth pick never intensified. It was previously reported that what the Cardinals wanted for the #3 pick wasn't all that much less than what the Bears ultimately accepted for #1. Kinda surprised there wasn't more discussion with Seattle though. ... The Panthers weren’t alone in wanting to jump to No. 1, and they sensed there would be competition. Indeed, Poles said a “wave” of teams checked in after Carolina. The Bears had calls with QB-needy teams throughout the draft — not only in the top 10, where three were willing to discuss potential compensation. The Raiders had conversations about what it would take to get to the top pick from No. 7. The Colts (including Poles’ former colleague in Kansas City, Chris Ballard) were also involved but only to a certain point; the timing just wasn’t right for Indianapolis and some other clubs. What intrigued Poles most, though, was the possibility of moving down one spot to Houston’s pick at No. 2 and then down to No. 9. For the Bears, it would be two big moves wrapped into a bigger one. The Panthers, who were comfortable with two of the top four quarterbacks, were open to it. But Poles’ dream scenario hinged on the Texans moving up. First I've heard that there was an option on the table for the Bears to trade down to #2 and then for the Panthers to trade up to that spot rather than #1. That the Panthers were good with more than one prospect has been confirmed multiple times. I know there was some negative reaction to this idea when it was first reported, but I still don't get why. It's kind of silly. ... Fitterer had heard about the Bears’ talks with other teams and called Poles on his way to his daughter’s high school soccer game on Tuesday, March 7. “He’s like, ‘Yeah if you want to jump in on this, make an offer,'” Fitterer said. Poles met Tepper when he interviewed for the Carolina GM job in 2021. Based on that experience, he knew Tepper to be an aggressive businessman. The Panthers had swung big for a quarterback a couple of times after Tepper bought the team in 2018, making trade offers for Matthew Stafford and Deshaun Watson. “If they saw value in this, then they would be very motivated to get it done,” Poles said. This is where Tepper starts figuring into the story. ... After his conversation with Poles, Fitterer called Tepper, and the owner agreed it was time to make a bold move to escape the quarterback purgatory that had existed in Carolina since Newton’s body began to break down in 2018. Fitterer then called Poles back, and the two talked through the entirety of Fitterer’s daughter’s soccer game. The Panthers made a second offer, this time including Moore. Wonder how Fitterer's wife and daughter felt about that ... Fitterer was reluctant to part with Moore, Carolina’s first-round pick in 2018 whom the Panthers extended last offseason at three years and $61.9 million before the wide receiver market blew up. Moore never went to a Pro Bowl in Carolina. But he was one of only three receivers in Panthers history with three consecutive 1,000-yard seasons — a tough, durable player who missed two games in five seasons. “We couldn’t get there with just picks,” Fitterer said. “So we argued that D.J. was worth a 1, plus somebody else. We both agreed how valuable he would be for a young quarterback, to give him a proper evaluation.” Poles had said publicly he thought he could get three first-round selections for the pick. But by including Moore in the deal, the Panthers were able to hold on to one of their future firsts. “There were certain players that we never really wanted to trade,” Fitterer said. “It’s so hard to replace a Derrick Brown or Brian Burns, a pass rusher (and) an interior, dominant young player on a (first) contract. D.J., we didn’t want to move either. But it’s a little bit easier to replace a receiver than it is a pass rusher or a three-tech.” The narrative that the Panthers were okay with getting rid of Moore in the deal was always a dumb one. Maybe Moore needs something like that to motivate him, but it was never true. ... The framework of the deal was mostly in place, but there was a hangup: The Bears wanted the Panthers’ second-round pick (No. 39), which Fitterer was determined to keep. Instead, the Panthers countered with their other second-round pick (No. 61), which they’d acquired in the McCaffrey trade. “We didn’t want to have that big gap in there,” Fitterer said. “We thought the sweet spot in this class is somewhere between 20 and 45, just really good value in there. At 61, that’s a heck of a fall, and you’re gonna watch a lot of good players (get taken).” Fitterer proposed a sweetener to close it out — the Panthers’ second-round pick in 2025 — to go along with 9 and 61 this year, next year’s first and Moore. Tepper, the hedge fund manager worth $18.5 billion, signed off on the additional second. “He thought that was a pretty inexpensive move to get up there to get your future quarterback to change the direction of your franchise,” Fitterer said. “Dave’s very good at managing value, showing some restraint yet being aggressive. This is the world he lives in.” I like that we were determined to hang on to the higher pick. Fitterer doesn't just roll over in negotiations. ... With Tepper participating remotely via conference call, the Panthers were fired up after finishing the deal. But first, they had to get in touch with Moore and his agent, Drew Rosenhaus. “It was an exciting moment for everyone. There were a lot of high-fives,” Suleiman said. “But it was — I hate to say short-lived, but we had to immediately call D.J. and let him know so he wasn’t learning (by) reading about it. We wanted him to hear it from us first.” Afterward, Fitterer and Morgan would go to dinner with their wives. But all of the Panthers’ decision-makers unwound in Fitterer’s office first, talking about the trade for a half-hour or so. “Wow,” Fitterer said to the group, “Did we just trade up for the first pick?” Also like that it was important to the team to let Moore know personally. And again, that doesn't jibe with his "they didn't want me" comments. _____________________________________________ All in all, a very good article from the Bears side as well. I can easily recommend reading the entire thing

Oh, I suspect we're not the ones that are headed for a time out

Absolutely...

The article goes on to explain that one of the reasons the league became beholden to Amazon in this issue is because nobody else wants the Thursday night package. The inconvenient truth for the NFL is that Amazon stepped up for the league at a point when it was having trouble finding anyone willing to pay its price for TNF. (Fox willingly walked away from the package.) Likewise, selling off Sunday Ticket wasn’t easy, and it took a long time for the league to get to where it wanted to be with YouTube. And if the league believes these streaming partners are the future of broadcast media (and it does), it needs to make those partners happy, especially considering these packages are up for bid again in seven years. Which means the NFL needs its product to be a needle-mover for streaming partners to get more services in and bidding on its different packages. So on Tepper’s question, it’s not in Amazon’s best interest for the streaming service to get a game-changing boom for the many bucks it gave the NFL. It’s imperative for the league that Amazon receives that sort of impact too, to set up its future in that space, and to get companies like Apple—companies that weren’t all that enthusiastic the last time around—interested. And then, on the other side of this, you’ve got the players, many of whom already consider playing on Thursday a heavy burden (older players especially, with some younger players liking the extra time off on the back end). McCourty told me that, just to get himself in position to play on a normal Thursday, he’d have to start planning for Sundays ahead of time. He was always worried about getting out of the previous Sunday’s game healthy.

At this point, I'd say you can probably unpin this topic. Our free agency push looks the mostly be over. All the focus now is on the draft.

We don't know where they have them graded, but system fit is part of that equation.

King is very good at reporting on things that happen. Football analysis? Not so much. Hell, he spent years trying to keep Art Monk out of the Hall of Fame.

We're talking about players that aren't on the team yet though. If you're picking between two players and one of them requires fewer adjustments than the other, that's the one you take.

Albert Breer's latest MMQB explains where David Tepper stood on the issue: When it got there, Giants owner John Mara was first to speak—giving an impassioned, sometimes-angry speech about how there isn’t any need to do this, and how it’d only alienate the league’s most avid fans (those who actually attend games). Bucs owner Joel Glazer, a member of the broadcast committee, countered him, while Steelers owner Art Rooney II and Bears chairman George McCaskey spoke up to back up the points Mara made. After that, Panthers owner David Tepper asked a simple question: Is Amazon complaining? It was then explained that the league had seen the audience numbers during the season’s stretch run, and there were games where the ratings weren’t just low—there were games people weren’t tuning in for at all. Tepper then told the room that he’d vote for it if the league could promise 28 days’ notice not that a game could be moved, but that it would be moved (the proposal, again, only offered 15). NFL chief media officer Brian Rolapp responded that the league couldn’t promise that, because of agreements with Fox and CBS. Broncos CEO Greg Penner then said he’d only vote for the proposal with 28 days’ notice. The Vikings’ Mark and Zygi Wilf then asked whether the league could guarantee that, with the changes, no team would be forced to play away on Sunday and again on Thursday. They were told that’d be a difficult thing for the NFL to promise. After that, Chiefs owner Clark Hunt stepped in and offered another compromise: Instead of four weeks of TNF flexes in 2023, the league only do two weeks. Others then asked whether they could get 28 days’ notice and just two flexes for Year 1. That calmed the room down, and Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie proposed splitting the proposal apart and voting on the two aspects of it separately. That left everyone where they are now—with the prospect of having to play on multiple short weeks in 2023, without knowing yet whether they’ll have to do it on the fly.

We are now in draft month

This suggestion that not wanting to sign someone accused of domestic violence indicates someone is "soft" is itself a sign of being unbelievably stupid.

From The Observer's latest mock (Link) Even if you ignore the size narratives with Panthers head coach Frank Reich, Stroud is still the most logical fit for the play-caller. Stroud’s ball placement, accuracy and consistency are phenomenal. Those traits will help Reich and offensive coordinator Thomas Brown, as they look to create an offense that relies heavily on spacing and yards-after-catch opportunities. Alabama’s Bryce Young — who would also be a fantastic pick here — is probably the better prospect, but Stroud feels like the better team fit with this current staff. The Panthers traded all the way up to No. 1 to nail this pick, and Stroud fits like a glove. ... Legendary hockey coach Herb Brooks was famously quoted as saying "I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the right players" when picking the team to go against the Russians. Kaye applies a similar principle here talking about the Panthers. System fit is definitely a consideration In the sense that Stroud would require the fewest adjustments to the system. And while I know Kaye technically refers to taking height out of the equation, you realistically can't. The truth is adjustments that might be necessary to compensate for Young won't be needed for Stroud. I suppose you could somewhat say that takes height out of the equation because it's not a factor based in a fear of Young being fragile but on more practical terms.

I do...and I do...