Mr. Scot

Outside noise is basically why there weren't 20 plus teams going after Deshaun Watson. Sanders "outside noise" isn't as serious, but it's also less likely to go away because he's related to it

"Overachieved" might be a bit of a stretch... You can name a lot of guys who've had great moments but mediocre at best careers, and that's what I believe will ultimately happen with Shedeur. Right now, he's achieved a success level roughly equal to that of Dameyune Craig.

I can't speak for anybody other than me on that. For the record, I absolutely want someone to compete with Bryce. As far as the statistical argument, even accepting that as authoritative (I don't, but you know that) you're still making two mistakes here: 1) A player's career stats aren't a good metric to judge how good they are right now. 2) Too small a sample size can very easily be misleading. Lastly, why are people "so fired up about it"? Again, I can't speak for others, but for me it's simple... I don't think he's anything special. And others may indeed feel the same without necessary having any nefarious ulterior motives.

Yeah and Phil Snow has the second best defense in the league I'm reminded of 2015 where we used to build up huge leads in the first half just to wind up winning by less than a single score because our second half performance stunk. We built up some pretty good rushing stats over an early stretch in the year. Didn't really help us against the Saints though, or in some of our other losses. Hell, go back and look at past Super Bowl winners. Is it always the team that's ranked first in one category or another? After all, stat rankings always tell you who the best team is, right?

I wouldn't argue he's handled things well in Cleveland since his draft tumble. I give him credit for that. Draft eval really only matters if they got it right. And with Shedeur, I think time will beat out that they did. Like others, he'll leave behind some cool highligh reels, but something less than a great career.

I don't put Bryce any higher than that, but I don't put Murray up there either. And we've touched on the reason: an unfortunate tendency to choke. You can have all the best stats in any game you play in, but if you choke at a crucial point and lose the game, guess how much those stats count for? And I will at least admit this when it comes to Bryce: his game performances of late definitely don't reflect choking. Just the opposite, in fact.

Well in this context, there's actually three "guys on the internet with an opinion" If you want more though, a quick search will tell you that Murray isn't necessarily as well thought of as you'd suggest.

Does that really help his case, though? It's generally believed that he dropped as far as he did over the attitude issues. If, however, it wasn't so much the attitude as it was the evaluation of his abilities, that's arguably worse.

As a player yeah, though it would seem he actually has bigger problems now

I'm not putting any bets on Bryce being able to reach that ceiling. (yes, I meant to do that)

Our RBs sure didn't look better last time. And given that you cite our OL injuries as if they weren't considered, I'm curious what you think the metaphor "MASH unit of an OL" meant exactly

Well, if you want to discount "guy on the Internet with an opinion" then I have some bad news for you He's not exactly alone in what he's said though

Possibly, but I'm not honestly even worried about whether he can have a better performance. I want consistency. And as I've said many times, I'll take "consistently good" over "occasionally great" ten times out of ten.

I wouldn't say "called out" given that you focused on an accusation but haven't even attempted to answer the substance of my statements about how unreliable stats can be. I can focus it a little closer if you like... Should and interception that happens because a receiver made a poor attempt at a catch and deflected it to a defended reflect negatively on the quarterback who threw a perfectly good pass?

Pretty much my take... Mind you, I'm iffy on Bryce proving to be a consistent starter as well.

Yeah...no to Shedeur does not equal "nobody over Bryce".

Lots of irony here...

If Murray comes back, we can talk. And dude, a guy who's watched every Arizona game gave you a whole list of things to talk about and you responded with no substance at all. Just basically, "well you're wrong because...stats"

Being benched and on the verge of let go may not be "statistical" but I assure you it matters.

The league demonstrated their view by not drafting him.

Nope, but I do see it happen a lot. Again, it's why I don't bother with them.

I don't think I watched that video

One being done publicly while the other was done privately doesn't really make it any better. It's still basically saying "I deserve better than this", and it gives people a really bad taste in their mouths. Not only did the league disagree, but they took a rather dim view of the whole episode...and rightly so. As to highlight reel plays, I xould put together a highlight reel of Bryce that would make him look like the best thing going. But once you saw him play a full game, you'd know the truth. Hell, guys like Ryan Leaf, Michael Vick and Rex Grossman could put out great highlight reels. You just had to kinda look away when they did the...other stuff Bottom Line for me, if I were giving Sanders career advice right now, I can tell you what my first suggestions would be: - Tell your dad to sit down, shut up and butt out. - Likewise, find yourself an agent that has absolutely nothing to do with Deion or any of his close associates - Also sign up with a QB coach that'll always tell you the unvarnished truth, not just say how great you are To sum it up, ggo out there and make it or break it without your famous father's influence, comments or his very public presence. I doubt that happens, but I don't doubt that it might be the best thing for him.

I'm not cherry picking metrics. I'm ignoring all of them. There are things about a player that stats are never gonna tell you. And there are things you might think stats tell you that are actually wrong. We've been talking about Howell so I looked up his stats for last season with Seattle. In the two games where he played, he had a completion percentage under 36 percent and his overall quarterback rating was in the mid teens. Should I consider those things valid for evaluative purposes?

This board has those issues sometimes...