kungfoodude

The one thing I will give credit to Fitterer for is that the Hurney vs. Gettleman arguments are forever retired. Our worst GM in team history is cemented at this point. No argument to be made against him.

I think even so our coaching staff shooting themselves in the foot was the bigger factor. Do I believe this went to script for the NFL? Absolutely.

IF we didn't make a bunch of bad roster decisions in this past offseason/draft it's conceivable it could take as little as 3-4 years to rebuild a top 12 caliber NFL roster. I think a lot of us are not appreciating how unholy bad this roster is, especially when you get past the starters. Additionally, look at the roster and who would even still be here in 3-4 years. It's more holes than core members. This is why any hope of building a lasting and GOOD roster are future hopes. It will take years of good drafting and solid FA moves to build something like that. You all watched the horrifying drafts, epic free agency blunders and terrible trades/wasted resources from trades over the past few years. This is the cost. We aren't magically going to conjure up a good roster from that kind of poo. But we have to know it's actually STARTED first and that remains to be seen. Otherwise we are still floundering around waiting for an actual rebuild to start.

You know, normally I would agree but this roster is so fuging bad I might be inclined to try and build the team first. Of course, that requires a competent FO and we haven't proven that is there yet.

Are you talking about broken Cam or alternate universe healthy Cam? Because the latter means we never are in position to take Fields in the first place, nor would need to. Secondly, IF Fields could be developed(I am not convinced of that) would we be able to develop him? I rather doubt it. No one here developed Cam effectively. Cam was Cam from day one and he learned on the job. The improvements(which he needed) didn't come until far later in his career and seemed to be self initiated rather than franchise initiated.

Yep. The warning signs were there. And even having a HOF QB didn't matter. He was the worst stsrting QB in the NFL that season and played terrible. It was our game to lose and we fuging lost. That's one I will never forgive Ron & Co. for.

IMO, 2015 was more so. The Broncos were so clearly the worst team we had played all postseason. Then Rivera and Co. decided to fug the pooch as hard as possible.

Yeah, that violates a long running rule I have. Never buy a jersey until the player gets their second contract.

Yep. A win in 2003 or 2015 woukd have forgiven a lot but alas, here we are.

Anyone else doing a full Panthers merch boycott? I am sticking with that until Tepper is gone or he proves to not be a fuging idiot.

Yeah, I started noticing a trend when I was tabulating and thought, "surely not." Whelp....

100% agree. If the "preseason" or camp was at fault then we would suck early and then get better late. If we maintain the same level of suckitude the entire year, that's a pretty safe bet that it was coming no matter what. People are just putting the cart before the horse here. We have 17 games to watch this nonsense and bitch. Everyone needs to chill out for a couple more weeks. But, you know.....maybe this is the Huddle in preseason form too? This could be Huddlers getting their reps in for the regular season. You know what, I have reversed course. This is good practice. Bitch away.

If that happens, the "Fire Dan" train will be at high speed in mere seconds.

I have always considered he and Jake as 2A and 2B in Panthers history. I was a big fan of his and wish we had gotten him earlier in his career.

I personally don't think there is much debate between Cam/Jake. Jake, although beloved had many roster benefits that Cam didn't enjoy. Cam was on track to a HOF career and we really can't say that about Jake. Plus if you go best versus best, Cam's 2015 MVP season is something we will likely never experience again(sadly). Jake had an amazing career arc, however. Still will be a beloved player.

I know a lot of people got wildly fixated on BC as a starter but I have always maintained and believe that his true value is a OT/OG high caliber backup. This is where he really helps the team out most.

I don’t think you are allowed to call a ginger "Rusty."

I don’t think making any of those moves would have mattered at all. Remember that the one thing that wouldn't have changed it the idiots coaching, idiots making FO decisions and the idiot owning the team. This is why I don't get too invested in the "what ifs" under Tepper. This mess starts at the top.

I don't really think there is any danger of our starters looking comfortable, so that seems like an unfounded worry.

If you really want some depressing stats: Panthers Preseasons with Winning Record: 8 Panthers Seasons with Winning Record: 7

2023 Preseason: 0-3 (finished 2-15) 2022 Preseason: 2-1 (finished 7-10) 2021 Preseason: 1-2 (finished 5-12) 2020 Preseason: No Preseason (finished 5-11) 2019 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 5-11) 2018 Preseason: 3-1 (finished 7-9) 2017 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 11-5) 2016 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 6-10) 2015 Preseason: 3-1 (finished 15-1) 2014 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 7-8-1) 2013 Preseason: 3-1 (finished 12-4) 2012 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 7-9) 2011 Preseason: 1-3 (finished 6-10) 2010 Preseason: 1-3 (finished 2-14) 2009 Preseason: 0-4 (finished 8-8) 2008 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 12-4) 2007 Preseason: 1-3 (finished 7-9) 2006 Preseason: 4-0 (finished 8-8) 2005 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 11-5) 2004 Preseason: 4-0 (finished 7-9) 2003 Preseason: 4-0 (finished 11-5) 2002 Preseason: 1-3 (finished 7-9) 2001 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 1-15) 2000 Preseason: 0-4 (finished 7-9) 1999 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 8-8) 1998 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 4-12) 1997 Preseason: 0-4 (finished 7-9) 1996 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 12-4) 1995 Preseason: 3-2 (finished 7-9) Winning Preseason and Winning Season: 37.5% Losing Preseason and Losing Season: 88.9% .500 Preseason and Winning Season: 36.4% .500 Preseason and Losing Season: 54.5% FWIW, this was the data I gathered. *Posted this in another thread but probably better suited for this discussion. There is some data for you guys to digest/bicker over.

2023 Preseason: 0-3 (finished 2-15) 2022 Preseason: 2-1 (finished 7-10) 2021 Preseason: 1-2 (finished 5-12) 2020 Preseason: No Preseason (finished 5-11) 2019 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 5-11) 2018 Preseason: 3-1 (finished 7-9) 2017 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 11-5) 2016 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 6-10) 2015 Preseason: 3-1 (finished 15-1) 2014 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 7-8-1) 2013 Preseason: 3-1 (finished 12-4) 2012 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 7-9) 2011 Preseason: 1-3 (finished 6-10) 2010 Preseason: 1-3 (finished 2-14) 2009 Preseason: 0-4 (finished 8-8) 2008 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 12-4) 2007 Preseason: 1-3 (finished 7-9) 2006 Preseason: 4-0 (finished 8-8) 2005 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 11-5) 2004 Preseason: 4-0 (finished 7-9) 2003 Preseason: 4-0 (finished 11-5) 2002 Preseason: 1-3 (finished 7-9) 2001 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 1-15) 2000 Preseason: 0-4 (finished 7-9) 1999 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 8-8) 1998 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 4-12) 1997 Preseason: 0-4 (finished 7-9) 1996 Preseason: 2-2 (finished 12-4) 1995 Preseason: 3-2 (finished 7-9) Winning Preseason and Winning Season: 37.5% Losing Preseason and Losing Season: 88.9% .500 Preseason and Winning Season: 36.4% .500 Preseason and Losing Season: 54.5% FWIW, this was the data I gathered.

You are barking up the wrong tree. I was the guy that was pissed we signed him to the contract we did. It had nothing to do with him being great or not great. It's the modern NFL. Only utter fools pay RB's big money. As for All Time greats, notice that he isn't on many people's lists here. Perhaps that has more to do with the time periods being vastly different or maybe the people that actually watched all of the Panthers seasons without any recency bias actually do remember Double Trouble and how dominant that duo was for many years.

Underrated QB in Panthers history.

He maxed out his abilities. Some people just don't have it.