Sgt Schultz

My guess is people think Sydney Crosby has switched sports. No, I don't have a lot of faith in the intelligence level or awareness of my fellow humans.

I agree with everything listed. To sum it up, we have a lot of unknowns right now. That is not all that unusual with a young team. The people who looked promising in year one looked less so in year two, and they need to regain their stride. Some of that is related to how they are used and what they are asked to do vs. their strengths (coaching and game planning). Both lines need to come together. On paper, our OL looks much improved but paper doesn't do much in the NFL. CMC needs to stay healthy The LBs need to be "refreshingly good" Mayfield needs to shake off last year's injuries and build on 2020 The WR corps needs to not disappear The TEs need to be noticeable, especially in goal line and short-yardage situations The secondary needs to be as good as we think they are The defense in general needs to create turnovers The offense needs to stop giving the ball away The rest is coaching. Game planning, adjustments, putting players in positions to succeed, etc. If they can get to where they should have been last year, which is probably around .500 and be in the playoff hunt, I'll be content. Chalk 2021 up as a loss and move ahead. If not... Or, at least, they should.

Yes. They had Corral rated very highly on their draft board, especially among the available QBs. Let's face it: we picked our tackle, then had no picks for several rounds, and as the third round started to tick by, he was still on the board. It was a very good value. As was the trade for Mayfield. As I've said in several threads, I was not in favor of trading for Mayfield, but it is hard to argue what we traded away in the deal and amount of his contract that we are paying. The only downside is if he does return to 2020 form, he won't be so affordable next year and our cap outlook is not great. But, for the cost of some low end draft picks and $5M (maybe escalating up to $8.5 depending on Mayfield's numbers and durability), we wound up with to QBs who are better than the two we had when we started. Corral's situation sucks, but his potential is still higher than Walker's. Mayfield vs. Darnold....well, the referee needs to stop that fight.

I won't get into the "Battle of the QBs" when you just acquired one because the other guy in the battle stunk up the place and necessitated a change. The scenario about Mayfield going down, especially before Corral is ready to assume the #2 role, is a concern. But it is also a direct cost of past sins at the position, namely exercising the fifth year on Darnold and/or not bringing in a credible backup (last year or the last five or so). If that happens, it is most likely checkmate on the season unless the defense and running game can carry the team (and Darnold does not make any stupid decisions in a lesser role of handing the ball off). What they would have done had they not had Darnold this year involves a lot of speculation that is not worth getting into very deeply. They probably sign a relatively cheap vet in FA prior to the draft, but which one and where that leads about who they would have drafted and if they would have then pursued Mayfield gets into that minefield of speculation.

Expecting him to be lightning in a bottle is a very high bar. Lower first round picks usually don't provide that. Prior to the Mayfield trade, hoping he moves up to start once we cratered under Darnold or at least to take over #2 on the depth chart by seasons end was probably a realistic range of expectations. I'm not sure the Mayfield trade changed that other than any realistic chance Corral would be the #1 any time before the competitive part of the season came to a close (we don't win games and are eliminated from playoff contention). As far as I can tell, the Mayfield deal was not related to Corral. I guess if Corral had lit it up from day one they may have backed away from the talks, but the sticking point was always which team was going to pay how much. I don't think either side budged from the draft through the actual trade, Mayfield just chipped in. Prior to the draft, we had two QBs who arguably should not be on NFL rosters. Maybe Darnold is a backup, but he turns the ball over too much for my tastes even in that role. After the draft we still had them, plus a third round pick that we liked the potential of. So, one guy that might turn out and two that are duds. That situation still dictates pursuing somebody who is at least solid. We did, and at least for this season, got him fairly cheaply.

I don't think I ever heard Rivera's opinion on Grier. If I remember right, Grier was Norv Turner's idea, and from what I heard he thought Grier had the capability to be be an effective #2 and the eventual successor to Cam. That would probably also mean he planned to develop him into the #2 QB by the end of the first season, especially since we weren't especially sold on our QB depth behind Cam. So Rivera, probably not (or no opinion), but Turner, probably so. We'll never know if the #2 idea would have turned out. Grier stunk, but once things went south any focus on developing him was on hold and eventually ended with the cleaning out of the coaches. I don't share Turner's vision about him ever being a starter, but he might have been able to develop him into a competent backup. Our backup QB position has been a mess since Anderson left.

It does come down to that. The worst that happens with Mayfield is not that he sucks this season (the Rhule demise offsets that), but his "good even years, not so good in odd ones" continues and we get Rhule for another year or more as we go up and down like yoyos. FWIW, I think Mayfield's down 2021 was more a product of injuries than anything. Seems like Stefanski used Rivera's philosophy of "rub some dirt on it and get back in there." Not saying he would not have had a down year by comparison to his 2020, but not as much down. I was not an advocate of trading for him, but was okay with what we gave up and paid for him. But it beats another season of Darnold and PJ, even if they are on the depth chart under him.

That is true, but neither you nor I are on this staff. Our concerns are a little longer term. And it will be their problem if they survive this year.

It will as to who is behind him. If Mayfield is the guy, having a backup in place for a few years solidifies things. That backup is not named Sam Darnold or PJ Walker after this year, unless we like basically throwing in the towel when Mayfield is not available.

I don't know what to expect from Mayfield, but even if he shines and is resigned, having only Corral with him, who as you said is coming off IR and an unknown commodity, means a QB is going to have to come from somewhere. If Mayfield works out, maybe not in the first round, but if he doesn't or is only serviceable, I would think they have little choice but to pull the trigger early next draft. I'm not in that camp with Corral, we have no idea who he is. Russell Wilson is a tall order. I agree with you on Rhule. The problem is they only have on QB under contract next year, which gets back to my above response to Jon Snow (who I also agree with). The injury to Corral does change the fact that he is even more of an unknown commodity next year, having no real exposure AND coming off a serious injury. It could be the only QB we have under contract is physically compromised.

Corral's injury certainly makes that more likely, if not inevitable. A lot depends on Mayfield (both performance and new 2023 contract vs. our cap space). If he doesn't work out or we can't afford him, we have little choice but to draft somebody and maybe start them. The upside is that if we are in that situation because Mayfield does not work out, it is a chance for an almost complete purge of a QB room that could best be described as patchwork (and that would be a compliment given the Mayfield assumption attached to that). You'd have to think that would be with a new coaching staff in place, but who knows?

Why did you have to bring that up?

Where do we get the second QB?

All I can say is not to panic. I have no idea whether Corral will turn out to be a starting NFL QB or not, but there has been no plan (or at least any implementation of a plan) to bring him along as of yet. All this falls under those nasty words, what did we think was going to happen? At this point, the goal should probably be to advance his development to a solid backup/#2 on the depth chart. From there we can figure out what to do with Mayfield when his contract runs out at the end of the year and what to do in the draft. Going into the offseason, we need to (finally) have a plan for the QB position. Especially heading into what is supposed to be a QB-rich draft.

This whole things reeks of being NFL theater. All I can do is shake my head.

Yeah, teams aren't going to ignore a few years of film on a QB over one preseason game, or even an entire preseason and training camp. Well, let me say almost no teams. We might, but we already have the rights to Darnold and PJ. Rippadon, as far as Rhule trying to sabotage Corral's development, I am more inclined to cite Hanlon's razor, or, as Goethe put it, "why look for conspiracy when stupidity can explain so much?" The depth chart probably comes down to Darnold or Walker as the backup. Most likely, the loser gets cut because nobody is going to give up anything for either of them and I can't imagine Rhule survives cutting Corral. I doubt he would get fired immediately, but partially because I doubt Fitts would allow thought to be sent to the league office. The fact that Darnold costs us roughly $18.5M doesn't mean much at this point since he costs us that whether he is on the roster or not. I'd personally keep him and cut Walker, but in the end it probably doesn't make much difference. If either of them is pressed into action as a starter, we are toast, anyway. And assuming I am halfway right on the QB depth chart, the goal should be having Corral as the backup by season's end, assuming Mayfield plays the entire season. We need to see enough of Corral to know what we have heading into the 2023 draft.

I did the same thing, wondering how Darnold got picked off by the opposing QB.

The pieces are in place, but...... I used to commute into work with a guy who described his relationship with his wife as "I am much happier since I gave up all hope." That is largely my approach to the Panthers. The good news is it has been my approach to "my" hockey team, the St. Louis Blues and they won the Stanley Cup in 2019.....after 50 years of me being a fan.

Add to the "if's" listed earlier that our third-year players need to realize some of the potential we saw in year one. There was a lot of stagnation/regression last year. I'm hoping that was coaching, schemes, and how they were used, or just a "sophomore slump" but the fact it happened to such an extent is concerning. The lists of "if's" is pretty long, and they don't all need to go completely our way. In some cases they just need to move toward average. As was mentioned on the video, improvement in turnovers on both sides of the ball would be huge. While he talked about Mayfield's 2021 problems, he only mentioned the fact that they were trotting him out there injured once. The more I looked into that, the more it looked like the Browns used Ron's "just rub some dirt on it and get back out there" approach with Mayfield last year. We'll know by the end of week four what to expect from this team. For whatever reason we do well against Arizona, so the first four are winnable games on paper. The roster looks better than it did last year and we have some coaches that know their rumps from a pylon, so there is hope. But, the roster looked better last year than it did in 2020 and we saw where that got us. As for the schedule, it looks rough now but some teams will under-perform this year, some will over-perform, and some will have off weeks. Schedules never turn out to be what they look like in August. So, we'll see. I don't think the assessment is off.

The entire 2022 Pats coaching structure is bizarre. They do not have either an offensive or defensive coordinator. On offense, it sounds like Patricia and Joe Judge will flip a coin before each down to see who calls the play. I am not McDaniels' biggest fan. I saw how he imploded in Denver in record time. Most of that might have been immaturity since he spent a lot of time doing things whose purpose seemed to emphasize that he was in charge. So maybe he has matured out of that, we'll see. But honestly, I don't like revolving doors for coaches and I would have fired him a month after he was hired. I was never quite sure after that if he was running the offense with the Pats or he was hanging onto Hoodie's and Brady's coat tails. I might have gotten past that if he had been successful somewhere other than under that duo, but his only year as an OC elsewhere was a disastrous 2011 season with the Rams where they only scored 20 or more points in 3 games, and were held under 10 in 6, including 2 shutouts. Obviously that is not all on him. Full disclosure, they were 32nd in the league in points score, but only 26th the year before and 25th the year after. That said, they scored roughly 100 points less the year he was the OC. Then he retreated to the safety of New England and Hoodie. All that makes me suspicious of his abilities.

Remember the good old days, when Rivera would have just told him to rub some dirt on it and get back at it?

I walked away with that, too. It's a team sport, so I'll take that as a win. The Pats have had a lot of successful teams in the last 20 years that might not have won a lot if individual drills, but put them on the field together and the total was a lot greater than the sum of the parts. Not a bad situation to be in.

Thanks to those that put what they were hearing and reading into the blow by blow on here. Looking forward to t96's take, when he gets the chance. It sounds like we started slow, then picked it up and did well. Sounds like our QBs struggled a bit, but it takes a while to figure out how to grip a football that has half the amount of air pressure it is supposed to. Yeah, anybody associated with the Pats in any way probably has to leave the word "class" alone. They get results, but it is not exactly the way that people associated with 1970's era Dallas Cowboys.

Thanks. I'll give that a listen, probably while I am ignoring my next meeting.

That is Walker's ticket to remaining on the team, I think. Which makes the rep situation worse, because we have two guys splitting #1 reps, a guy essentially getting #2 reps, and the guy we drafted getting the spoils. The original question is whether there is tension. There probably is but I don't know that we have seen it. There is almost always some tension in any organization. Especially one that is in an extremely performance-driven endeavor. What may make ours worse is if the roles of the key people are poorly defined. And I have no idea whether those things have been ironed out internally. I generally assume they are, but who knows? On paper, Rhule controls the roster and who is on it. But a lot of things exist on paper that are obsolete because the alternative was to enforce them and have the paper run in the shredder. Some think Rhule would then just smile, nod, and collect the money but like all coaches, he has an ego. Doing that would be the equivalent of admitting failure (he got fired for not being able to win with "full control"). Ask Chip Kelly how that feels, as he has even admitted (I think) that it led to his undoing in Philly. I'm not saying Rhule has waived that, I just don't know and what we see are mixed signals. From outside, the organization looks like a clusterf*#k that is ruled by committee. The problem with committee rule is you generally get watered-down decisions (or those not related to the problems) and nobody can effectively be held accountable. Truth is, giving that level of authority/control to any NFL coach is a tall order and has been for probably 25 years. Giving it to a coach that has virtually zero NFL experience was, well, somewhere between naive and idiotic. Back to Kelly, Philly did not give that to him on day one, but when they did his death spiral began.