Seltzer

General Observations: Nice crowd out there tonight and good energy. People are excited to engage with the team, even if it's in a limited capacity, and then team seemed to feed off of it. Can't wait to get back to BOA and a live game. Practice was upbeat, fast-paced, and well-ran. It's been a few years since I have been to training camp, but there seemed to be more urgency than some of the practices I went to under Rivera. In a little less than 2 hours, the team practiced KR/PR coverage, multiple individual position group drills, one-on-ones, a round of 7-on-7, 2 rounds of 11-on-11, and FG's. No wasted time and no standing around- guys had things to work on from the time stretching ended until the final horn with short scheduled breaks. There was a prevailing sense that this was a serious business endeavor and there were objectives to be accomplished, which was another thing it sometimes seemed lacking in some Rivera practices. Coaches were everywhere and giving instruction from the position coaches and assistants all the way up to Snow, Brady, & Rhule. Brady especially was giving direction to the QB's (Darnold, Walker, Grier) between every team rep when they were out there. Beyond that, there were assistants taking notes between every rep for each position group, there were multiple videographers, up to a guy timing how long between snap-to-release for the QB's. Analytics are here and guys know they are being measured and evaluated on every rep, and I think it showed in the effort. Rhule has kept his promise of competition for every position and an opportunity for guys to get a legitimate chance to show what they can do, and it's another thing I think that contributes to the culture he is trying to build. Rhule does a lot of mixing giving the 2nd teams guy some reps mixed in with the 1st team and the 3rd team guys reps with the 2nd team. Two guys that are fighting for roster spots that stuck out to me: Troy Pride (who downed the ball at the 1 yard line on a punt coverage drill) and Greg Little (he's got an uphill climb to make the roster, but he looked like he had a mean streak out there and wasn't half-assing drills). Both guys know they're not guaranteed anything with Matt Rhule. Finally, it's impossible to see anywhere close to everything going on out there with how fast-paced it was, and the linemen especially were on the far sides of the field. That made it hard to see much except when they were in team drills (although a guy near me pointed out to me on a couple of times where Derrick Brown just mauled the offensive linemen he was going against in O-Line vs. D-Line drills. Individual Observations: Sam Darnold looks like he has good command of the offense. He is a big dude, and has above average mobility which he showed off a couple of times. Sam has a strong arm and can push the ball down the field. He was a mixed bag tonight IMO, making some really good throws and a couple of bad ones. I didn't see any bad decisions though. He did a good job navigating the pocket in the team drills under constant pressure (a common theme below) and will hang in the pocket unlike Walker & Grier which were way too quick to bail IMO. Darnold is a big step above PJ Walker and Will Grier. Unfortunately, this may be more of an indictment of Walker & Grier than anything. I think Darnold can and will do well if the offensive line can hold up. That's not something I'm confident about just yet after what I saw tonight, although tonight was not full pads which does put the offensive line at a disadvantage. PJ Walker to me looks like the clear backup, and I can't see any reason to keep 3 QB's this season which means Grier will be cut IMO. PJ was a mixed bag tonight too but did make the play of the night when he made an incredible scramble and found Ventell Bryant for a 50 yard-ish TD. Will Grier made some really great throws in the one-on-ones (including a 45 yard teardrop to Robby), but it still seems like the game just moves too fast in a live environment. He has plenty of arm and has good accuracy when not pressured, but to me he has the lowest ceiling and that roster spot will be more valuable elsewhere. All the QB's were under pressure in 11-on-11, but Will was way either way too quick to bail or stayed too long without navigating and took what would be a sack. Like I said, just seems too fast. CMC- incredible shape, superior in all position group drills, just an all-around beast and an incredible outlet for Darnold, who may throw the ball to him 100 times if this O-line doesn't gel. Hubbard- got quite a few 1st team reps. Him and Reggie Bonnafon seem to be the favorites to round out the RB depth. Hubbard or Cannon will be the KR. Trenton Cannon- He was the 1st KR up and has been spending all camp so far with the receivers. Think he has an underrated chance to be RB4/WR7. Dan Arnold- One really nice catch in team drills. Really good speed and can hopefully be a red zone threat. Tommy Tremble- Violent in the blocking drills. Better as a receiver than I thought, although he did drop a great 2nd level throw that Darnold dropped into him. Still, has the potential to be an all-around great TE. Ian Thomas- In great shape, and is a beast of a physical specimen. Saw him make a good catch and make an inexcusable drop. The potential is there, and he's still a clear step above the remaining TE's, but he hasn't put it together yet. Like Grier, I think it is more mental than physical. Colin Thompson- Only mention him b/c I think he's the only other TE that has a chance. Decent receiving and speed from what I saw, but the only way he makes it above Thomas would be if the coaching staff just doesn't think the potential is worth another year. Robby Anderson- Has the swagger and game to back it up. Made the catch of the day with a one-handed TD grab in one-on-ones. Best Panthers receiver I've seen since Smitty in terms of how well he sets himself up for YAC in how he positions himself for the catch. DJ Moore- Is really displaying the kind of confidence we all want to see from him. Goes right at Jaycee Horn & Donte Jackson. He is a quiet alpha. Made several great catches including an incredible sideline grab against Jeremy Chinn. Terrance Marshall- Is much bigger than I imagined. Looks way more like DJ Metcalf than Robby Anderson physique-wise. Saw some good catches but nothing spectacular that I saw tonight. The thought of Marshall being Moose 2.0 and DJ being Smitty 2.0 is pretty cool. David Moore- Again, some nice catches but nothing great tonight. Has some wheels. Omar Bayless- I really think he has a chance to be the WR5. Had a couple of really nice catches (and drops) that I saw, but he was constantly getting separation. Could be a good red zone target. Keith Kirkwood- Sneakily racked up several catches in the team period. Think he's competing him Brandon Zylstra, Shi Smith, etc. for the 6th and I think final WR spot. Bottom line is we have a good problem to have at WR. There were several other bottom of the roster guys with nice catches tonight sprinkled in also. I wish we had the depth problems at O Line we appear to have at WR. Offensive Linemen- I want to reiterate that the O-Line is set up for failure early on in training camp to a certain extent, since defenses are typically further ahead early on top of the fact this practice wasn't fully padded which helps the O-Lineman slow D-Linemen down more, so it's not a house-is-on-fire moment. Still, to the naked eye it didn't look great even accounting for that. And while it's hard to take too much notice of any one O-linemen during a play, I did focus on Brady Christensen and he was a rock (granted mostly against 3rd string guys). Hopefully he can move up against better talent and still look that good. Taylor Moton- Went to greet Brian Burns before practice during warm-ups. Respect among 2 of the best players on the team. Reminded me of Julius Peppers and Jordan Gross (Iron sharpens Iron) back in the day. Jaycee Horn- Saw him make an incredible one-handed catch before practice started on a random ball thrown at him. Looks the part. Didn't really notice him this practice, but that means I didn't see him give up any catches during team drills. Donte Jackson- Seems to be the vocal leader of the secondary. Can absolutely fly, and it's important he stays healthy if the team is going to have success this year. He's not perfect and gives up some passes, but he is a competitor against Robby & DJ, never backs down, and holds his own for the most part. AJ Bouye- Really didn't notice him much, but did see him talking to Phil Snow several times. Had a nice breakup against Terrance Marshall in one-on-ones. Jeremy Chinn- Didn't notice him much either (mostly focused on offensive guys), but he did all the drills that I saw with the defensive backs group. He is a physical specimen also. Keith Taylor- Was getting reps over Troy Pride. Was playing with an edge out there for it not to be a padded practice. Big corner. Hassan Reddick- Worked exclusively with the LB's. Was used as a pass rusher some during team drills. Had some good pressures but nothing that would have been sack although limited reps. Top Linebackers are Reddick, Shaq Thompson (who has noticeably bulked up), Jermaine Carter, and Denzel Perrymen. Not sure who is out in more traditional 4-3 looks. Don't know enough to make any judgements about the LB depth beyond that. Julian Stanford had some nice pass rushes in his reps. Brian Burns- Absolute terror. Would have had at least 2 sacks tonight. If he has any help at all he may be in double digit sacks by midseason. Derrick Brown- Him and the other DT's were collapsing the pocket and stuffing the run during team drills. Brown would have had a sack-will be a disappointment if him and Burns are not both Pro-Bowlers. Daquan Jones is a big man, too. Definitely have some bulk in the middle. Joe Charlton- Absolutely booming punts- hopefully we've found a long-term guy there. Joey Slye- The ball sounds like a rocket coming off his foot. If he can get the mental part down, he has leg to kick for a decade plus. Both kickers looked good tonight. It was exciting seeing the team live again for the first time in over a year-and-a-half. There is some really good, young talent on this team. Robby, DJ, and CMC are elite offensive weapons. Terrance Marshall, Dan Arnold, and Tommy Tremble have the potential to help out this offense over the top. Sam Darnold gives me hope this season can be different from the last few. He had poise and command out there even when the line was breaking down, and even though he missed a couple of throws, he also made several that Bridgewater simply couldn't. His arm talent is undeniable. On defense, Brian Burns, Derrick Brown, Jeremy Chinn, and Jaycee Horn are all elite talents. Yetur Gross-Matos, Hassan Reddick, Marquis Haynes, Jermaine Carter, and Donte Jackson are all poised for potential breakout years. Phil Snow has the group playing with an edge. There were only a couple of deep shots during team drills b/c the defense was all over the QB. Top 10 should not be an unrealistic goal for this group. To me, at least based on tonight, the success of the season will come down on how well the offensive line plays. I don't think Sam Darnold will be the one holding the team back. If the line protects him, I believe he will win with the weapons and coaching we have. The defense looks solid and the best on paper we have had since 2017. The talent we have now along with Phil Snow's coaching won't be holding anybody back either. Hopefully come Monday when the pads come on and "real football practice" begins, Rhule can find some guys that can slow down what appears to be a ferocious pass rush. Our season depends on it.

Sitting in line with boys at Krispy Kreme (along with everyone else in Spartanburg evidently). Am going to do a write up from camp but will take me some time to get back and write it up after my boys are in bed

Honestly, hard to find too much fault with these predictions. Bucs on paper are the clear favorites in the NFC South, IMO the Panthers and Saints have good rosters overall but major questions at QB and OT for the Panthers and secondary for the Saints. I likewise see the Falcons bottom out this year. I'm all onboard with the 10-7 prediction and hopefully a wild card. Ultimately, it would be nice to just be in the race all season long at this point. 2017 and especially 2015 are getting long into the rearview mirror at this point... Rhule needs to prove his meddle at the NFL level this year and at least have a team competing for the playoffs.

I feel like the offensive line definitely has better depth than last year, but there are still a lot of questions about having 5 guys that are both starter caliber and can play well as a unit. If Christensen (or anyone else) looks good at RT, I think the team needs to strongly consider putting Moton on the left side. Moton looked really good at LT in the short amount of time he played there. Maybe he's not the dominant LT he is at RT, but it still is probably by far our best option. This may have been forgotten over the years, but Jordan Gross played LT in college but was put at RT his rookie year to help with the transition. Gross was moved to LT when it was determined Travelle Wharton was a better guard than tackle and the team never looked back. It seems like versatility is perhaps the most important thing Rhule looks for in offensive lineman. If so, I hope Moton at LT remains on the table unless there is someone else who looks markedly better. Maybe Erving can lock down the LT spot (or someone else for that matter) and Moton can stay at RT. But the bottom line is no matter how we get there, we need better and more consistent play from our LT if we want to have a top-tier offense.

Nice post OP. Standing out on ST is how a depth guy like Pride can have a lasting career in the NFL. It's also been so long time coming since we had CB depth. Can't wait to see what Phil Snow can do with a full deck on defense this year.

Just predicting receiving TDs

You're weirdly emotionally invested in this for some reason... I've been around a long time and don't usually indulge trolls, but while it wasn't universal, there were plenty who viewed him as a steal: https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article229754369.html https://www.pff.com/news/draft-the-advanced-numbers-suggest-will-grier-may-be-the-steal-of-the-2019-nfl-draft He's not, but I'm not wrong to point out he was viewed quite favorably when we drafted him... do yourself a favor and learn to chill a little... this is just an internet message board

That is simply not true... especially in the bottom of the 3rd where we drafted him... if he didn't have any flaws he would have went much sooner... he was viewed as a steal bc he was viewed as a guy who could come in as a high end backup to Cam and potentially a long term starter...anybody can make a pronouncement 2 years after the fact... doesn't change what was being said about him when he was actually drafted

Comment of the day right here!! Kudos my man...

Grier was really good in college, and many pundits thought he was a steal in the 3rd round, and some guys thought he was better than Daniel Jones who was taken top 10... I watch a lot WVU football and I think he is being completely honest... Grier was awesome in the wide-open spread offense of the BIG 12 where he was usually only making 1 read... like he said, the game is much faster at the pro level, and defenses are much quicker and better at disguising coverage... Grier has the physical skills to be a NFL QB Hurney made plenty of mistakes, including Grier IMO given our other needs, but he certainly wasn't alone in thinking Grier was a good value with upside where he was picked. I think Grier will have solid preseason, but as long as Brady and Rhule have their obsession with Tommy Stevens, I don't see a path for him being on the 53 man roster... maybe we can trade him for a conditional 7th or something to a team looking for a 3rd QB near roster cuts.

I think Grier could definitely lose the QB3 spot to Tommy Stevens... I think we will keep 3 QB's, but Stevens will be the guy b/c he does other stuff But it's certainly possibly Stevens is TE3 with Ian Thomas being the odd man out and the Panthers only keeping Sam and PJ as the QB's.

Teddy should own what he said... he knew it was going to be controversial when he said it... if he thought it could have been "taken out of context," he should have kept silent or phrased it another way... Joe Brady was his guy, and he threw him (and Rhule) completely under a semi rolling down I-85... you can't just walk something like that back once it gets out...

Iron sharpens iron

Great post OP... nice to have some quality threads this time of year

His niece goes to the charter school my sister-in-law teaches at in the Lake Norman area. He came to speak to the class 3 years ago when she was in 3rd grade... the kids were super impressed that his job was to "protect Cam Newton." Class act and he will be a great addition to this area on top of being the anchor of the offensive line.

Nah, super nice and smart kid... don't know what happened to him post high school but wouldn't be surprised if he changed his name

I went to school with a kid named Harry Annas.... pronounced "Anne-nuss" Obviously, the poor kid got called Harry Anus... evidently Harry was a family name, but still... awful move by the parents

It's a legitimate concern. My hope is that Horn is a superior athlete and can use his speed to compensate for the difference in physicality. Horn's only real knock I could find is that he is overly handsy with receivers... I hope with good coaching and having officials at training camp will help him find a happy medium... That being said, we definitely need more aggression in our secondary overall, and hopefully having Horn and Chinn along with the other guys will turn this unit into a force that can actually cover the big-time receivers they will have to go against in the NFC South

It gets lost in the postseason that Smitty had (and the fact that Ricky Manning wasn't able to keep up that level of play beyond the 2003 postseason), but we don't make the Super Bowl without Manning, Jr. He made one of the best one-handed interceptions I've seen to this day snatching the ball away from Torry Holt when the Rams were in the edge of field goal range in OT against the Rams. He followed that up with a 3 INT game in the NFC Championship game against the Eagles where he absolutely brutalized the Eagles finesse receivers. His style wouldn't cut it today, but Manning's level of CB play in the 2003 playoffs was as good and perhaps better than any other corner in Panthers history over a short span. The only other CB that comes close to dominating the game over a 3 game stretch was Josh Norman in 2015 where he single-handedly won the Jacksonville and 1st Saints game during the first 3 weeks of the 2015 season.

Smitty in the 2003 playoffs was magical (in fairness 2005 was probably even better). But that was definitely when he became a superstar and in the discussion as one of the best WR's in the league. The national media that year didn't fully realize just how good Smitty was until the playoffs b/c we entered the year so far under the radar It will be hard for another receiver in Carolina to top the double-overtime 69 yard house call in St. Louis given everything that was riding on that play. The Panthers defense was gassed, and would have probably lost had Smitty not at least converted that 3rd down into a fresh set of downs.

2013 says hi... and they did it with 2 undrafted rookies playing significant time in the secondary. The 2003 defense was obviously very good, and probably better overall, but IMHO, the 2013 D Line was the best, and that's not a slight to the 2003 team. Peppers, Rucker, and Wallace vs. Hardy, Johnson, and Addison is close to a draw And while I might give Jenkins and Buckner a slight edge over Star and Short since they were rookies, that one is pretty close too in terms of how well they played I still think what the 2013 was more impressive bc of the sheer lack of talent in the secondary. That secondary only worked bc the pass rush was so ferocious

I've never regretted my subscription to The Athletic. Great coverage across the board, and Person is as good as any of the other writers they have. Joe does better with the long-form format The Athletic has vs the still truncated form of traditional papers trying to fit a set amount of words onto a physical space on the newspaper that he had to contend with being with the Observer. He still can come off like a tool in interviews, but he's a good writer and probably covers the Panthers in the furthest depth of anyone currently covering the team. Him and Jourdan Rodrigue were really great together but she left to cover the Rams.

Second that

It would as bad as rescinding the franchise tag on Josh Norman in 2015 or how badly the team handled the departures of Smitty and Cam...

I was in a college fraternity with that jackbag (he was kicked out for constantly starting fights, creeping girls, and almost burning down our fraternity house in his drunken douche-baggery) involved with the Jon Beason lawsuit... He got everything that had been coming to him for years... I know he carried around a laminated card around in his wallet to impress woman claiming he was on the Panthers practice squad (this was in the early 2000's when it would have been much harder to verify that information for fringe practice squad players... I don't know what position he claimed but I doubt it was punter... he was 6'4", 240ish, and ripped so he could pass for a player for someone naive... https://www.derp/2011/6/5/2207751/beason-accuser-arrested-in-nc https://www.wsoctv.com/news/man-suing-panthers-player-testifies-about-incident/223042055/ https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/jury-sides-with-beason-in-civil-trial