Icege

Before we start, this is not a pro-TB5 thread. anti-Tepper thread, nor is it a thread proposing that our record would be any better with him this season. This is a reflection on what the team has missed out on this season, and will miss out on next season due to the decision(s). When David Tepper made less-than-supportive comments about Teddy Bridgewater last season, it was a matter of when rather than if the QB would be moved on from after the season ended. It also signaled that the owner would very much be involved in approving the talent on the Panthers' roster in spite of insisting that he was leaving the decision making up to his GM and head coach. This put pressure on rookie GM Scott Fitterer to appease his boss, and low and behold Matt Rhule was there to make a recommendation. While "scouting an NYJ defensive player" (presumably Frankie Luvu), Sam Darnold's "playmaking ability jumped out." I'm wondering what about Pat Elflein jumped out as well. When looking at Teddy Bridgewater's play, one thing lacked above all: a killer instinct, the desire to hang in there and make a play happen rather than bailing out to live another day. That safe approach works when a QB can challenge a defense to open up, but with Joe Brady's uninspired play design + play calling, Teddy's midseason knee injury, and Teddy's tendency to never go big but just go home drove a notable risk-taker like David Tepper absolutely bonkers. While scouting defensive free agents, the staff saw in Darnold a guy that was willing to be that gunslinger that Tepper wanted. Fitterer got to work on making a deal, offering a 2021 6th, as well as a 2022 2nd + 4th to acquire Sam Darnold from the Jets. Not only that, the team believed so much in Sam as well as their ability to coach him up that they took the 5th year bonus option on his rookie contract, guaranteeing him $18M next season. Fast forward to now, and Sam Darnold is on the IR with an incomplete scapula fracture. That isn't the real story though; the real story is that Sam regressed so bad that it left the staff with no other option should they were to compete right away like the boss wanted: they needed to get a starting QB in free agency somehow just passed the middle of the season. Enter Cam Newton. With cap space already tight, the Panthers organization went out of their way to mend their relationship with the former franchise QB. Cam got himself a story book return, but things didn't just come tumbling back down to earth... they plummeted in a fiery ball of disappointment and sadness. All of the Panthers' weaknesses reared their fugly heads the following week, and once again the coaching staff failed to find a way to counter the counter. While the team is still mathematically in the playoff hunt, they're going to have to try for it without veteran starting CB Donte Jackson (who is designated for free agency) and superstar RB Christian McCaffrey (who is set to jump from the 5th highest paid RB @ $6.9M to the 4th highest paid RB @ $14.3M in 2022). They'll have Cam though, who will get the Bye week to try and get more familiar with Joe Brady's offense that seems to have been figured out by opposing defensive coordinators. The staff clearly believes that this team can get to the playoffs with Cam, as they're giving him $4.5M with incentives (up to $1.5M for being active every game, $500k per playoff win where he plays 50% of the snaps (up to $1.5M), $1.5M to take 50% of the Super Bowl snaps, and $1M if named the Super Bowl MVP) to play just a third of the season to get the team there. But Cam alone isn't enough to cover up a porous OL, inexperienced OC, and butter-fingered WRs. So now, here we are: mathematically still in the playoffs, but the odds are showing that we're likely planning for next year making the "win now" investments sunk costs. When we start to look at all of the bad decisions, it gets overwhelming. So let's take a look at the first decision this offseason that really set the team back: moving on from Bridgewater. Would this team be much better with Teddy? Doubtful. Despite being backed by the current #3 defense, an average OL, weapons, and a steady run game... Denver only has 6 (7 if they beat the Chiefs tomorrow) wins compared to Carolina's 5. But what would the team have this season had they followed through with Teddy being a bridge QB after showing that he wasn't a franchise QB? Let's first take a look at what this team has now invested in the QB position this season and next already: 2021: $17M dead cap for Teddy 2021: $4.7M salary for Sam 2021: $6M-$10M for Cam 2021: 6th round pick 2022: 2nd round pick 2022: 4th round pick 2022: $18.86M for Sam This totals out to $46.56M - $51.56M in cap space as well as a 2nd, 4th, and 6th round draft picks. Having stayed the course with Teddy would likely have us looking at a similar shittacular season to what we're having now, but the team would also have so much more to work with going forward. That $21M folks were bemoaning paying Teddy? Now the team is spending $6M more this season to potentially limp to a pick in the early teens, which is about where fans said Bridgewater would leave us in purgatory at. The painful irony though? That compensatory 6th round pick that we traded last season for Sam? You know... that day 3 pick that didn't seem like much? Welp... the Kansas City Chiefs ended up acquiring it when they manufactured a trade with the Jets where they swapped picks in the 5th and 6th rounds. This allowed KC to move up in the 5th from #175 to #162 to select Noah Gray out of Duke, and then slide back in the 6th from #205 to where the Panthers would have selected at #226. That selection for the Chiefs? ...Trey mother fuging Smith. Now the Panthers have nearly $19M committed to Sam Darnold when they need to find a way to retain Haason Reddick, Frankie Luvu, Stephon Gilmore, and/or Donte Jackson. They are without a top 50 and top 115 picks in the upcoming draft as well. For perspective... the #50 pick recently was Azeez Ojulari and the #115 pick was Jabril Cox. Both players have looked solid for their respective teams. Could you imagine looking at a team next year with an OL consisting of Christensen-Smith-Linderbaum-Brown-Moton and a 2nd + 4th in the 2022 draft? Ooh wee mayne. tldr; if the team rode out the original Bridgewater stopgap plan, they could have had: $6-10M extra cap space for 2021 Nearly $19M ($40M if Teddy is cut) extra cap space in 2022 Trey Smith 2022 2nd round pick (currently projected to be a top 50 pick (2021 #50: Azeez Ojulari)) 2022 4th round pick (currently projected to be a top 115 pick (2021 #115: Jabril Cox)) But still no QB

Robby... OOF Chuba's stonehands are a problem. Ameer Abdullah has been a surprise, showing good hands and burst out of the backfield. CMC doing CMC things, and our ST WRs have always been reliable #4/#5 guys. Tommy Tremble tho? Let's gooo

If this is true, fire anybody that agreed with that latter assessment. Slater was being called OL1 by a lot of OL experts, Duke Mayweather being one of them. The dude was a clear stud with great film against NFL prospects like Chase Young. Btw, Mayweather has mentioned that Tyler Linderbaum is OL1 this season.

But it's the perfect way to spell his replacement

He's an interior OL According to positional value junkies, that means even if he's the best player in the draft that we should only invest at max, a 3rd that we don't have. In all seriousness, the projected salary cap makes it difficult (along with all of the other needs) to justify spending significant cap space on the interior. There are some good quality guys coming off of their rookie contracts that are going to be looking for pay days (James Daniels, Billy Price, Will Hernandez) or we're looking at the usual retreads that admittedly don't look too shabby (Kyle Long, Trai Turner, Laken Tomlinson, AJ Cann, Dan Feeney, Mark Glowinski, Ethan Pocic). Nate Solder, Terron Armstead, Cam Robinson, and a couple of other LT free agents will be out there though if we're okay with moving Cameron Erving to the 6th man role (which I think he'd do alright in tbh, though we'd need that RT/RG bruiser since Erving is more athletic than strong).

T Y L E R L I N D E R B A U M

More or less my sentiments. There are non-Rhule guys that have Rhule guys waiting in the wings behind them. The QB + OC pools for next reason are leaving a lot to be desired for next season... The only OC coach that didn't make me wretch was Pederson.

My thoughts from a previous thread regarding potential coaches being "replaced from within":

CMC + Shaq's contracts were vintage Hurney, that's for damn sure. As much as I hate to say it though, we're not in as bad of a situation as a lot of folks might think initially. Next season, imo ofc, is the only real "sunk" season in regards to the cost of CMC's deal (especially if his current availability holds up). If he gets anything like what he had in his last couple of seasons with Rivera, then we get away with one there. If it's same as it ever was, then the Panthers can cut him and save $5M or look to trade him to a team that has the room to absorb the contract to go with their need at RB. Tough sale there, ngl... It'll be very, very interesting seeing how Fitterer handles Shaq & CMC's deals. If the current staff continues to decline, I can see him just blowing the whole thing up. I think that the pressure is on Rhule to put together 3 wins out of the final 5 games... It's hard for me to see Tepper being okay with anything less unless we're competitive in all 5 games with bad breaks hitting us at the worst moments.

Cameron Erving* not Cam Jordan Also forgot to add Teddy to the list of CMC's QBs (and yes, CMC did play with PJ) I hate the 15min edit window

Is it a valid point though? Other RBs within $500k of Fournette's $3.25M contract: Raheem Mostert, Rashaad Penny, Tarik Cohen, Cordarelle Patterson, Kenyan Drake, and Chris Carson. CMC's is currently just double that at ~$6.9M. At worst, he's holding the team back from another Pat Elflein contract. Joe Mixon is paid more ($8.1M), as is Melvin Gordon ($8.9M), Saquon ($10M), and Derrick Henry ($13M). Zeke is barely $80k less, so the question of value at this point is when compared to other top tier RBs where does McCaffrey's salary lie? About in the middle for those not under rookie deals. We don't actually see the type of cap hit that folks clutch their pearls over until next season when his cap hit jumps to $14.3M. The crazy part though? That just takes him from the 5th best paid RB in 2021 to the 4th best paid RB in 2022. Kamara is slated to jump from $5M -> $14.5M, Derrick Henry goes from $13M -> $15M, and Zeke jumps from $6.8M -> $18.2M (!!!). To put this in perspective, let's look at the rest of the RB salaries from after CMC's to about what Zeke & CMC cost this season: Dalvin Cook $12M, Joe Mixon $11.5M, Aaron Jones $9M, Kenyan Drake $8M, Saquon $7.2M, Austin Ekeler $6.5M, Chris Carson $6.5M, Kareem Hunt $6.2M. The RBs you'd get with Fournette's contract next season? Mike Davis, Devontae Booker, Carlos Hyde, or Mark Ingram. I don't think that swapping CMC for one of those guys and an additional $9M makes this team better, especially given the guys that they've targeted on offense such as Pat Elflein, Cameron Jordan, Michael Jordan, John Miller, etc. Plus, when we look at the actual monetary value of the RB position, it isn't $1M like folks are thinking. It's $4M. Next season it'll be $6M. I could see it being a fair point if Fournette were still with the Jaguars, but he's doing all of this while behind a TB offensive line that's in the top 3, at worst top 5 in the NFL compared to the Panthers' OL which is at the polar opposite end of the rankings. Plus, he's got Tom Brady at QB. CMC has had the shell of Cam Newton, Sam Darnold, and PJ Walker (have they actually gotten to play on the field together during a game? They might not have yet). Fournette washed out during his rookie deal, came back on a prove it deal, and balled out. He's an exception, not the norm like folks keep pretending that he is. You know who has a deal that's in line with everyone's expectations? A player that gets paid about the same as Leonard Fournette this season and then gets paid the same as Mike Davis next season? A guy on a rookie contract: Josh Jacobs. When was he drafted? In the 1st round, which is a cardinal sin apparently... yet... it gives the numbers that folks are screaming for? The hand-wringing over CMC's contract is incredibly overblown by pseudo-capologists that swear by positional value over talent level, imo. Have things worked out smashingly? Not at all, but there are definitely nuances that aren't being looked at.

Tyler Linderbaum going to my wife's team (NYG) would be the slap in the dick that life regularly hits me with.

At this point, I just want Cameron Erving to get healthy so that Christensen and Brown can get thrown out on to the field to see if they're going to be the starters we need. We still need a franchise LT, but I don't mind riding out the season with Erving. I'd prefer that the talent level relegate him to swingman duties next season tho. Oh my doge if we actually land Tyler Linderbaum I'm ordering a jersey the moment the store releases them.

The painful truth is that the team has an absolutely stacked CB room and in order for DJack to stay here he's going to have to do it on a team friendly deal. He was on the upswing, a willing tackler in space that was making plays on the ball. He had a rough outing though the last couple of weeks, getting burnt and showing immaturity despite being one of the older guys in the locker room. That will hopefully allow the team some negotiating room. They also get to see just how good that depth is. Would it be better to bring back Gilmore instead to play across from Horn with Bouye in the slot while backed up by Henderson, Taylor, and Hartsfield? Can STO3 make a play on a role on the team next year? It'll be an interesting 5 game run to close out, as that last wildcard spot is wide open still.

Not quite sure how to read these moves yet. Either the team is packing it in and giving some of the younger guys opportunities to develop, or they're confident in their depth to put these two on the IR and still make it to the playoffs.

A big reason for that is directly due to the ineptitude of the offense. 15 interceptions, 12 fumbles, 26 drops, 31 sacks given up, 34.8% on 3rd down, and the inability to move the ball means that the defense is constantly put in situations with their backs already to their own end zone. If the offense can't move the ball, they can't stay on the field nor score points. That just means that the defense is going to be on the field a lot more than other defenses.

Tyler Linderbaum pls

How does this staff think they should address the OL? By bringing in a guy from the OL that helped Darnold see ghosts and the guy that gave up the hit that injured Joe Burrow. I can't believe that I'm actually excited for Cameron Erving to start at LT again. Hopefully Brady Christensen and Deonte Brown can start getting snaps, because as much as I like Trent Scott he's a back-up that shouldn't be out there for more than a couple of games. Tyler Linderbaum could still be in range with that first round selection...

I require a blood sacrifice. I'm try to be a constant optimist with rational expectations, but this team is so bad that I've turned the game off with 10min left. I'm the guy that would stay at games regardless of the score and cheer my heart out. I'm gonna go try FFXIV or something, idk. This is ass. Somebody needs to be held accountable... Whether that be Joe Brady and/or Pat Meyer, the team has a bye week to get somebody in and get them acclimated.

I mean, yea? Even if the team is losing and looking terrible while at it, I'd like to at least guys still make it to the end of the game healthy.

JEREMY CHINN DOWN? NO PLS

Upcoming bye week... does the team move on from Joe Brady and/or Pat Meyer?

this OL is atrocious oof

Brian Burns getting AFTER them on the sidelines, love to see it. Can't help but think that some of the Huddlers that were down on Pot Roast doing it in another thread are going to suddenly be super excited that Burns was doing it, but it is what it is