tukafan21

So because you don't trust the front office to find quality players, you'd rather be a slightly below average team in the NFL every season just so you aren't completely miserable every Sunday? I honestly can't wrap my head around that thinking, it's asinine to me

And the same people who say that now will be the same ones complaining 5 years from now that we still can't find a franchise QB, have no All Pro caliber players, and can't see any way we contend in the near future... you know, the same place we were about 5 years ago

you're right, it guarantees nothing, but you know what going 5-12 or 6-11 does every season? It guarantees that you're never going to have a contending team. You become the Dalton era Bengals at best, and even then, you still have to get lucky on hitting on a non 1st round QB and a solid but not great coaching staff. I'd rather suck and go for hoping to hit with our high draft picks for a few seasons than get stuck in NFL purgatory because I can look at the big picture and it doesn't make losing hurt anymore.

Again... we've tried that for the past decade since the SB season, it hasn't worked out in that entire time That's what is so frustrating for the people advocating for "building a winning culture" or "evaluating talent" as we've tried it, it doesn't work when you just flat out don't have players with elite potential. On our entire roster, DB and Horn are the only 2 players right now with legit elite potential. Legette has very good potential, but he's never going to be a Top 10 WR in this league (which is okay, not every player has to be Top 10 at their position). If you don't luck into finding absolute studs with mid round picks or build a nice base of star players with a bunch of Top 5 picks in successive years, you're never going to have a SB contending team.

When you already have a HOF QB and MLB on your roster, yes, you can try to build that winning culture by winning meaningless games. But when you don't even have a Pro Bowl player on your roster, it's an entirely different story Literally apples and oranges

Really? It feels great knowing we're still going to end up going 5-12 with a QB who isn't our future and we don't have a single potential future all pro on the roster besides our newly re-signed DT who is on IR for the season? You and I have very different feelings of "great"

And we're not proving that winning meaningless games every season by "trying to build a winning culture" doesn't work? We try that every year and it hasn't worked out, but the one time we get the #1 pick and make the wrong decision, everyone wants to say that's not a path to success. It's baffling to me how people can't realize we've been making this same mistake for the past decade and it hasn't worked yet, but they're convinced that this time is different.

We've tried to build that winning culture mid-season since 2016 and it hasn't worked, not even close, in fact, it's only set us further back as a franchise every single season since then. At what point are people going to learn that trying to build a winning culture with crap players who won't be around in 4 years isn't the way you build a winning franchise in today's NFL?!?!?!?!

We haven't had a culture of winning since 2015 and we haven't had a Top 5 pick since 2011 (outside of a stupid trade) So tell me how any of this is working? We keep repeating the same mistakes year after year and it's gotten us nowhere, until we decide to blow it all up and embrace being the worst team in the league for a couple of years, we will never have any chance of actually contending in the playoffs. And every season we keep trying this same crap, is just delaying any chance of having a winning franchise again.

I'd rather have the worst team in the league for a couple years if it means getting the talent necessary to be contenders than just have a watchable team in the moment. Cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't how you win Super Bowls, it's how you become stuck in NFL purgatory.

No, because we haven't actually thrown in the towel to get that higher draft pick since the Clausen season We keep trying to win meaningless games and hurting our draft position, so how can we learn from something we haven't done in over a decade?

I was against firing Rhule in season as it was only going to make us a better team in a worthless season and hurt our draft stock. I was against benching Bryce for the same reason. We're going to end up int he 7-10 draft pick range, yet again showing we can't even suck properly. This franchise is going to forever be stuck in NFL purgatory, never picking at the top of the draft (unless we make a stupid trade again) but never good enough to actually compete for the playoffs.

Maybe you should have used the winnings to buy some non-knockoff jerseys LOL I mean, c'mon man, if you have that kinda money, just buy the real ones and not the cheap chinese knockoff versions, haha

Haven't read through the thread, but this one is easy, if he has real trade value, like better than a 4th rounder, then either trade him now or IR him immediately with a stubbed toe or something and trade him after the season. If we're not going to start him the rest of the way to ensure the #1 pick and he has real trade value right now, we need to get that max value for him and not let him hurt that value more by playing again and sucking, only to be benched again.

Whoever the worst option is and just openly admit we're playing for Arch It might hurt ticket and merchandise sales for the season of course, but getting him as our QB for the next decade plus would be more than worth it in the long run, for both Tepper and the fans.

Said it the other day, there is zero reason to keep him at this point We're not signing him to an extension, he was brought in for someone we were cutting anyways, to give Bryce a better option on the outside, but Bryce sucks anyways and now is on the bench. If we can get anything for him, we'd be stupid to keep him, we need draft assets, not rental players for the rest of a lost season. And in reality, I'm also trading Thielen to a contender who could use his sure hands and route running, as again, we need assets and he's not part of our future anyways.

Not so sure about that anymore I I think this Bryce thing blowing up in his face is going to humble and change him. I think he’ll leave things up to the GM and HC more in the future with those kind of things. Maybe I’m being too optimistic, but would be hard for a smart guy like he is to not re-think his approach after all this.

It’s easier to do this with the #3 pick Not really possible with the #1 pick that you traded a boatload of assets to get. If that person isn’t your day 1 starter, you took the wrong guy.

Yea, I'd say there were a lot more in favor of drafting Stroud than Bryce. And beyond that, there was almost nobody saying Stroud shouldn't even be an option, even the Bryce fans, but there were A LOT of us who were staunchly against Bryce as it was painfully obvious that he just wasn't going to be an NFL QB. Once the pick was made, those of us who were against Bryce tried to get on board with the hype about his super brain and the coaching staff we assembled. But it was very apparent pretty quickly last year that we were right, he just doesn't have the stuff needed to play in today's NFL.

Was just talking about this with a friend the other day. If you forced me to buy a Panthers jersey right now, I’d go with a former player that I don’t have (probably Peppers or Kuechly). There isn’t a single player on the team right now that I’d want to buy right now.

So your theory is that Dalton is going to turn us into a borderline playoff contender Which will force the league to step in and do something about Tepper because it proves he screwed things up until then? Even though turning us into a playoff contender would kinda be the opposite of being a dumpster fire of a franchise that needs the league to step in and do something about it?!?!?!

Totally different scenarios, especially TO, but even Eli and Arch The game has changed today (and by game, I don't mean football, but the media and image game) and nobody knows it better than the Manning family. You start your career by causing a social media uproar because you're trying to dictate where you play, it's not going to help your endorsement deals and media likability. Just look at how much Deion got ripped into by everyone for saying he was going to only allow his son to play for a select few teams. He got torn up for that and everyone knew it wasn't even that serious of a threat. And Caleb Williams was getting ripped on social media when there were rumors that he was forcing the Bears to trade the pick or not to draft him, and those obviously weren't true. I think if someone were to do it now, it would really hurt that player's image. Sure if they win in the long run they'll be fine, but the Manning family is so media savvy these days, that I don't think they'd want to start him off on that foot and take years to overcome it. Cam proved you can be marketable playing for the Panthers, I think they'd look at Tepper's desire to win as a positive thing and that with the right QB in place, the rest could fall into place and allow him to put a winner together. But again, if they really didn't want him here, think the "easy" way out for them would be to pull a Luck and go back to school for another season. Sure it starts his NFL contract clock a season later, but he'd make a killing in NIL for the season and the family isn't hurting for money anyways. They'd sell it as wanting to get him a full second season as a starter before going to the NFL so it didn't seem like he was dodging us.

Oh, and on top of this, with NIL these days, I think if anything, Arch would be more likely to pull a Luck on us and go back to school if we had the #1 pick than try and pull an Eli.

I think people are making too much of this idea. Even for as revered as the Manning family is, if they're really the only ones to do that since John Elway, and do it twice, then a lot of people will turn on them in the football community. I think if social media was what it is today, when Eli was drafted, that wouldn't have gone over like it did, social media would have a field day with it. Plus, if we're smart and draft a true #1 WR with our first rounder this year, I think that alone could be very attractive to Arch and the family with already having that at his disposal. Eli and his dad didn't force their way out of SD because they were just a mess of a franchise, it was because at the time everyone knew the ownership wasn't really all that interested in trying to win, they just wanted to make money off the NFL team they owned. And despite all the dumb decisions Tepper has made, nobody can argue that he's just in it for the money, all he wants to do is win, and I think that would be a key difference to the Manning clan than with what happened with the Chargers and Eli back in the day.