tukafan21

Haven't been reading all the posts, so not sure why this was said, but why is this such a common argument by people in today's society? It's such a sad state on today's America that so many people like to call the people they don't agree with politically Pedos or Groomers. The overwhelming odds are that they aren't and it's just disturbing how quick people move to that argument nowadays, it's messed up.

So when this all backfires on us in a few years when Young can't stay healthy, we can blame the Texans for not sealing the deal before we could, good to know.

I'm not forgetting, I'm just saying this week will go right back to the draft within 24 hours. But yes, Rodgers in NY will be the biggest storyline of the season unless Brady makes a shocking comeback.

It will last 24 hours, then take a week or so off and come back with a vengeance in a week or so and then be the biggest storyline in the NFL during the season without question. If this was out of the blue, then yea, it would dominate things, but everyone spent weeks talking about it when it first came out a month or so ago, nothing has changed since then other than the deal being official. It's draft week, the draft will still dominate the NFL storylines this week, maybe not today, but by tomorrow afternoon it will be back to the draft.

Nah, not really Everyone knows we're taking Young and everyone has known about Rodgers going to the Jets for a month now. 24 hours from now nobody will be talking about Rodgers again until they see him at Jets camp, and nobody will care about our pick either because it's been known for about a week that we're going with Young. The unknowns about #2 and onward and how that all plays out will be the story of the week and the main talking points come Monday morning as well.

Probably because they do their best to keep it quiet. If you want to trade back, you want everyone to know so teams come to you with their offers. If you want to trade up, you want to do it quietly so other teams who could be targeting the same position as you aren’t aware.

Wow that’s a lot for a one year rental

They're mostly just "this player physically looks like that player" It's why you really never see comps of players of another color

Completely agree Obviously I hope I'm wrong if he's the pick, and while I understand why so many experts have him as their top graded QB, I think Young ends up as the 3rd or even 4th best QB of this draft in the end. I think Stroud and AR will be better, and think there is a chance Levis is as well, but fully understand why AR and Levis are more of projects and are graded lower, but I think with the right coaching, they both end up better.

For someone who I think will have a better career, so.................. If someone held a gun to my head and told me I have to put my life savings on either Stroud or Young to make the HOF, same odds for both, I'd put my bet on Stroud.

So...... a #1 WR who has had only 1 healthy/good season in his career (4 years ago), a RB who has had one good year and we badly overpaid based on the rest of the RB contract market this year, a league average (at best) TE that we're also overpaying, and an admittedly solid vet presence as a slot WR. And that's before even getting to us taking the wrong QB But sure, let's all get excited over this very average at best set of skill position players. Literally our OL and Defense are better units than that set of skill position players. Sorry, but just calling it like I see it. Also for what it's worth, I don't hate most of the moves we made this offseason, I thought many were great. But Miles, Chark, and Hurst were the 3 moves I hated the most, and nothing to do with the players specifically, but the whole picture. I'd have been fine with both Miles and Hurst if the contracts were cheaper and more in line with what their market value should have been with the rest of this year's FA class. I also don't hate Chark or even his number in a vacuum, it's that I despise going into the season with him as the #1 WR for a rookie QB, would be totally different if he was the #2.

Same, Stroud is a slightly better passer while Young has a slightly better feel for the game. But having said that, I don't think Young is a bad passers and I don't think Stroud has a bad feel for the game, that's where things for me just balance out between them overall when you take size out of the equation. I have them in a neck and neck race even at that point. That's where I then look at the size factor. Everything else can be coached up, but you can't make Young grow taller, and while you can put some weight on him, his overall frame is very slight, he doesn't have the wide base to him that other shorter QB's have had. If they were the exact same size, I'd still say they were dead even prospects, but then the deciding factor for me would be Young's processing ability. But since I don't think Stroud is poor at that, he's still very good just not quite to the level of Young, that's why I don't view it as "taking the worse QB just because he's bigger" like so many of the Young supporters like to say about us Stroud supporters. Because again, it's not just about the processing ability, that's just one factor that Young is better at, but there are other areas that Stroud is better than Young. The gap in their processing ability is significantly smaller than the gap of the potential liability in the size difference for me.

Personally, I don't talk about those actual QB things with the two of them because I think they're basically even level prospects with each better or worse than the other in different aspects of their game, but in the end, I think it evens out. What good is an endless discussion of... "Well Young is better at X, Y, and Z, while Stroud is better a A, B, and C and after weighing all those factors, I think they're even level prospects" Because then the question becomes, "well how do you separate them to pick one over the other?" And the answer to that, for me, is Young's small frame. It's not the only factor and it's not the first factor, it's the final piece of the equation, you have to look at all the other football stuff first, which I've done, and I like them equally from that standpoint.

Yes, this! It's what people don't seem to be grasping with those of us who don't want Young. Stroud has a simpler path to be a good QB in this league, Young needs to be the literal best ever small QB to make this work. We're not saying Young can't do it, but the odds are significantly smaller and it would take a more herculean effort for it to pan out. It's also why I've said too many times to count, that part of what factors into the decision for me is everything we gave up for this pick. If we had the top pick because we finished in last place last year and still had our other 2nd rounder this year, our first next year, our second the year after that, and still had DJ, then I'd be much more open to considering Young as the pick. (Spoiler alert, I'd still want to take Stroud in that situation as I think he's going to have a better career, but I'd be less against the idea of Young in that instance) As if it didn't pan out and we saw it early, we would have the assets to make a move next year to draft someone else from a much deeper class. Exactly what the Titans might do this year after taking Willis or what the Cardinals did after taking Rosen. All of this is also why I was so much against trading a haul to move up this year, too muddy of a QB class without a clear cut #1 to give up everything we did to move up. I'd have been much more comfortable giving up more assets next year in a stronger class (and that's only if one of the Top 4 didn't fall to us at #9, which very well may have happened anyways).

Again, this is why the argument of playing and succeeding in the SEC is a good barometer of a player's skill, particularly for those from schools like Alabama or Georgia due to playing superior players in practice everyday. I made this thread in specific regard to people using playing in the SEC as an argument about why he can withstand the physicality of the NFL. Two VERY VERY different things. Even more so when you talk about it like you are here and using the competition in practice everyday, seeing as QB's aren't allowed to be touched in practice.

Which is the crux of it all, people in the Young camp say people like myself, are basing the decision solely on his size, it's not, it's just a factor in it all, and in the end, yes, it is the deciding factor. But that's only because when you look at everything other than size, Stroud is right there as an equal level prospect (and before you go and bash that, there are PLENTY of NFL experts/analysts/execs/coaches/etc who say that, many who even say he's just the better prospect in general). When they're so close as prospects, size aside, once you then factor that into the equation at the end of the process, that's where it because the easy call for me to say Stroud should be the pick instead of Young. As I've said numerous times, if it was Young vs Levis or AR, then while the size is still part of the equation and it's factored in, it's not the deciding factor because he's that much of a better prospect in other areas that it far outweighs the size factor. I think that is very much lost in this argument by the Young supporters, they think those in the Stroud camp think we're wanting to take the "worse QB" which couldn't be further from the truth. We think they're even level prospects and we're taking the guy we think has the higher likelihood of having a long successful career. Those in the Young camp just want to disregard size due to it being an "unknown factor and anyone can get hurt at anytime." Which while yes, it's true, anyone can get hurt at anytime, doesn't make disregarding his size (in the way they do) a legitimate way to look at this draft pick.

I'm so sick of this argument As The Athletic's article today points out, since 2000 there have been 368 QB's who have played in the league, only 9 of them have been under 6 feet. Yes, as I've said it's not about his height, but his frame/weight/bulk, but that number would be even smaller if looking for players of Young's size. To make any significant revelation based on a sample size like that, it's just flat out ignorant and is only used by teams publicly as a way to help sell it to their fan base. Nobody arguing against Young due to his size is saying bigger QB's are guaranteed to stay healthier, but it's just common sense to say a 5'10" 190 lbs QB has a higher probability to get injured than someone 6'2" and 215 lbs. Yes, anyone could get hurt on any given play, but if you put those two sized QB's up for comparison and you had to pick one or the other as to who is more likely to get injured, you'd have to be fooling yourself to say there isn't even a slightly better chance of the smaller player being injured more often than the bigger player there. No, there are no guarantees, but the people asking for past examples/proof of smaller QB's being more injury prone, and leaning on a sample size of 9 out of 368, is just completely asinine in itself. Hell, even if all 9 of those guys kept getting hurt and thus helping my argument, I'd still say it's far too small of a sample size to be used in these discussions.

It's quite interesting that everyone here who wants Young just disregards his size as an issue and points to weird random data points as to why "smaller QB's aren't more likely to get injured" Despite every NFL expert and analyst openly talking about how his size and possible durability issues are 100% factors in the decision, but in their minds, his football skillset makes it worth that risk. And that's just those that still say Young should be the #1 pick, there are plenty out there that think it should be Stroud. That's NOT the argument most Young supporters here make, they say the size factor is irrelevant based on any number of factors, whether it be NFL rules, past data about smaller QB's (even though they're all still bigger than Young), or whatever they want to point to. That to me is very telling in how most Young supporters here talk about him, I'd have less of an issue if they'd say it concerned them but they think he's good enough that it's worth the risk. Yes, some argue that, but not most, most just dismiss his size as a non-factor. I'm gonna side with the "experts" on that one, very few, if any, have said that his size are a completely non-factor in the way so many on here talk about him.

Call me crazy, but trying to predict Young's durability by comparing him to guys who are 20+ lbs heavier than him is rather flawed and not very relevant.

Bryce Young will be the pick, he'll show plenty of things in his first couple years that has fans excited over him. But by the end of his rookie contract people will realize we made a mistake and took a guy who is injury prone and we'll be debating whether it's worth paying $40 million a year for a QB who only can play 10-12 games a season and likely misses playoff games like Lamar due to being injured late in the season. That's my prediction, don't @ me on it in the next year when he shows flashes of being a good player, come talk to me in 4 years when he can't stay on the field.

Okay... and your point being? You're talking about comparing it to the AVERAGE weight of QB's, someone 5 lbs lighter than the average QB is still significantly larger than Bryce Young is. He'd be literally the smallest (lightest) QB in NFL history The players mentioned there as missing significant gams while being more than 5 lbs less than the average are 2 Gloves, Alex Smith, Tannehill, and Jackson... they are 215, 215, 217, and 212 lbs respectively, meaning they all still have about 20 lbs or more on Young's actual playing weight. That's anything but insignificant

No, I'm not saying smaller QB's have durability issues. I'm saying the guy who would be LITERALLY the smallest QB in NFL history will more than likely have injury issues and thus I don't think he's a smart pick over someone like Stroud. If it was between Young and Levis/AR it's a different discussion, but that's not the case here. There isn't a fair comparison for him in the history of the NFL He isn't thickly built like Wilson, he isn't a fast twitch athlete like Kyler to help him avoid big hits, he's built like a slot WR without the speed.

C'mon man, seriously? Young is already an inch smaller than Russ, you really going to tell me that these two players below have the same weight/frame despite Young being an inch shorter as well? That 204 combine weight by Young is a farce and everyone knows it Weight was never a concern for Wilson coming into the league, it was his height, so he didn't need to put on weight for a show weight at the combine. There is a reason Young didn't do any workouts at the combine, it's because he wasn't in peak physical shape due to the weight he artificially put on there. His combine weight is the equivalent of a UFC fighter who cuts weight for a weigh in and then steps into the cage 15-20 lbs heavier, it's just in reverse. Fighters couldn't cut all that weight and then step into the cage to fight right after the weigh in.

Nope, still not getting it. I'm not saying this is a reason against the SEC argument in general, I'm only saying it in regards to the people who say things like, "it's nonsense to say he can't stay healthy when he made it through 2 SEC seasons without serious injury" Two very different things

You're right, I said best sub 6 foot, but I also said right after, that I probably shouldn't state it like that, it's just an easier way to say "small QB" But part of it also is that if I were to say name the best sub 200 lbs QB in the NFL history, there isn't even an answer there because there hasn't been one. So the closest thing you could compare it to in that sense is height, and if you're asking for evidence as to why smaller QB's are more likely to be injured, you kinda have to go by height as there has never been a QB as small as he is before.