tukafan21

Unless we're getting Marvin Harrison (which wouldn't happen), in no world am I giving up a probably Top 15, potentially Top 10 pick in 2025 along with our top 2024 pick to take a WR in the middle of the first round. From what I've read, this is supposed to be one of the deepest 1st round WR drafts in a long time, should be one worth taking mid to late first if we can get one without giving up our 2025 pick. We still don't know what Bryce is going to be and we're already looking at giving away a top 5 pick in a generational talent QB class, we can't give up the next year's first at this time.

He's still not a Tyreek, Chase, Jefferson, Diggs, Lamb, Waddle, type of player, that's more of who we need to go after. It's not just the straight line speed, it's the stop/start quick twitch speed that we need to get Bryce. I just think Evans is more of a better version of Thielen/Mingo in terms of style of play, we need to add a different type of player to be that #1 and have versatility in our pass catchers, not a bunch of the same style guys. Higgins isn't quite those guys either, but I think he's closer to it than Evans, and like 6 years younger, which is why I'd rather overpay to get him than go after Evans, it's about overall roster construction.

Having long plays isn't the same as having the quick twitch speed WR that we need out there. His long plays aren't because he uses his speed to out run a DB in a foot race, it's generally because he's just a GREAT deep ball catcher because of his size and ability to go up and high point the ball before a smaller DB can make a play on it.

Not saying Odell in particular was the answer to our WR problems (particularly because at his contract number and current ability, he wouldn't have been), but the irony is that's exactly the type of WR we could have used this year. One who wouldn't get frustrated at losing as long as they were getting fed the ball on a constant basis. Because even with a true #1, we weren't going to be winning all too much this year, but they'd have been fed the ball by Bryce from day 1 and thus wouldn't be a locker room or sideline distraction, they'd be happy.

Good player, wrong style of game for what we need to give Bryce. Thielen and Mingo are both possession WRs, sure Evans is better than them at it, but no point in adding redundancy for the sake of adding a better WR, need to add complimentary players to what we already have.

Yep, but without a 1st, we can't do that until 2025 and we can't wait that long for Bryce's development. Again, that's where Burns comes in as I fully expect he can get us the two 1sts that come with the tag. If we can't flip the 1st for an established WR, we can use it to take one in this draft and then still have another future 1st in our pocket.

Oh 100%, I wouldn't be against finding a way to trade for him right now, I think his speed is very much what we need for Bryce. But he's not the outside #1 WR that we need.

Here are the top WR's scheduled to hit the market in 2024 Free Agency Tee Higgins, Mike Evans, Calvin Ridley, Michael Pittman, Marquise Brown, Curtis Samuel, Gabe Davis, Michael Thomas, Darnell Mooney. Of them, right away, Mooney, Thomas, Davis, Samuel can be crossed off as they're not #1's (I'd actually love to get Samuel, but he's not the #1 that we need). Pittman and Ridley won't hit the market, I'm quite confident both will be back with the Colts and Jags respectfully. Evans, while still has game left to him, isn't the type of #1 we need to give Bryce, he's more of a big possession WR, which we have in Thielen. We need a quick twitch, fast, outside #1 and that's just not Evans game at this point in his career. Plus, if he leaves TB, it will be to go to a contender, not just the highest bidder (and that won't be us). Brown MIGHT fit that definition, but personally, I'm just not sold on him being worth it, I think he's more of a good #2, not a #1. That leaves Higgins as the only legitimate target among the players we know will be available this offseason. Odds are he doesn't hit the open market either, he will more than likely be tagged and traded. The other option is for us to go after a player like Tyreek or AJ Brown in recent years, guys who are due a new contract but their team doesn't want to give them one. Players who might fall into that category would be someone like DK or maybe Devonta Smith, but those are total guesses and it could be anyone, nobody expected Tyreek to be moved. If we're going to trade for Higgins or a yet to be known available WR, we'll need either a 1st round pick or an elite player at a different position. That's Burns or our 2025 First, and I'm not trading that 2025 First to pay out a big money contract for a WR, that wouldn't be smart when we could likely just wait the year and take a WR in the Top 10 or 15 and have them locked in on a rookie contract. So whether it comes down to trading Burns for the WR or trading him for the picks that we'd then flip for the WR just depends on who is available, who we target, and what those teams want, but all roads point to Burns being the only legitimate asset to get that #1 WR for Bryce next year. And I don't know about you guys, but if it's Burns or a #1 WR to help Bryce's development, then it's not even a discussion.

Most people here played college football?!?!?! I'll bet less than 1% of the people on this site played any college sport, let alone football. And if you mean playing HS football, the locker room dynamic from that compared to what an NFL QB does to mentor a rookie, isn't even in the same galaxy of comparison. Also, no, not any vet QB can properly teach a rookie QB all the dynamics that go into their job, at least not to the level you'd like to support your #1 draft pick at. You need someone who has been in the league for 10+ years as an occasional starter (like a Colt McCoy) or an actual longtime starter like Dalton. A 5th round pick isn't worth more than the mentorship that Dalton provides Bryce, which is why I'd do it if we also could swap TMJ for KJ Osborn, but not just Dalton for a pick.

TOTALLY different things to hear things from a teammate than it is a coach, have always seen coaches/players talk about how different it is. A coach needs to be hard on the player at times, the teammate is the one to then put their arm around them, pull them to the side, and re-lift their spirits, it's an entirely different dynamic. Coaches also don't spend a lot of time in the locker room, they have their own lockers/area and let the players have their own. That's where Dalton is most beneficial to Bryce, just being there for him and for Bryce to watch how a vet QB goes about his business on a day to day basis. It might seem dumb, especially for the #1 pick in the draft, but it's the little things like that, that can help rookies grow and learn faster than if they're trying to figure it out on their own or from an inexperienced backup/teammate. I'd guarantee if they traded Dalton (which in itself still seems very unlikely), they'd end up then signing someone like Colt McCoy to come in and replace Dalton's role of mentor, you don't leave that job to a Jake Luton type.

Said it in the other thread, Dalton is too important to Bryce's development to trade away for a mid to late round pick. However, if we can get KJ Osborn and a 4th for Dalton and TMJ, I'm all in on that trade. I think most likely scenario if they go the trade route would be for Jacoby. Howell is their starter, they're not contending so don't need to keep an experienced QB around in case he gets hurt, and they're in sell mode anyways.

Same reason I struggle to see how the Cardinals are going to be able to trade him very easily, the money owed on his contract. Unless the Cardinals are able to re-structure his contract to pay him a sizable signing bonus before a trade and eat a lot of the cost, he's owed a ton of money over the next few years, I doubt many teams have that cap room to take him on. If I'm reading it correctly, he's owed over $40 next year and over $50 the year after that. I'm not sure he puts them into SB contention this year and they'd just be better off re-signing Cousins again for a much cheaper number. More likely for them would be to go after Jacoby or someone like that.

This is just nonsense Look at our schedule, our 6 losses are against 4 first place teams and the other 2 losses are to teams who are in second place to one of those other losses. Dolphins, Lions, Seahawks, Falcons are all in first, Vikings and Saints are both in 2nd to one of them. Sure, maybe we should have been able to beat one or both of the Falcons or Saints, but realistically, we aren't a good enough team yet to beat the others. I'm not saying we're some amazing team of course, still have lots of holes and I'm not sold on Bryce having true elite potential, but we can be a decent team the rest of the year. Colts, Bears, Titans, Bucs, Saints, Falcons, Packers, Bucs are all winnable games, the Falcons and Saints are the only teams in that group that aren't below .500 and they're only each 4-4 themselves. I think they'll be able to ride this momentum to be up for and win the game against Frank's old team in the Colts at home, then carry that momentum to beat the bad Bears on the road to get to 3-6. Say we lose to the Cowboys and Jags as I figure we will and that is 8 losses. If we then go even just 3-3 in the other 6 games and we finish 6-11. Not quite what we wanted coming into the season, but that would be a more than respectable finish for a team that started 0-6 and looked as bad as we did in doing so.

I think it was right on the borderline of the flag or not. Rookie QB isn't getting that call, the Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts, Allen, etc of the world probably get that one. Would have liked it in the moment, but not one to be upset about

I'd prefer to keep him around to mentor Bryce But if we could maybe send them Dalton and TMJ for KJ Osborn and a 3rd or 4th round pick, I think I'd jump all over that

Just went and looked at his contract, looks like we're probably stuck with him for next year as well, it would cost us about $750k of the cap to cut him. And I don't mean that would be the dead cap hit, that means his dead cap hit is about $750k higher than his cap hit if on the team. Even with as bad as he's been, I can't see them using $8.4 million of the cap next year to ask him to leave, just pay the 7.7 Million to have him be the most expensive backup in the league (and then eat the $3 million dead cap to cut him after next season).

Thielen - A+ Hurst and Chark - D+ Sanders - D- And you left one out... Dalton - A Dalton has more than done his job in being there to mentor Bryce, help him learn how to be a QB in this league, and then step in and play if/when needed. Chark might get a C- if just based on his play itself, but when taken into account that he was given $6 million and supposed to be our #1 on the outside, D+ might even be too generous. Same with Sanders, he's been a D- on the field, but take into account his contract and it's an actual F

I think it was less about trying to freeze the kicker than it was just trying to time the snap perfectly to try and get the block for the win, especially the second one after we got the 15 yarder, at that point the FG was a gimme anyways. So if you don't guess the snap and are offsides, either he still makes it and it doesn't matter, or he misses/blocked because of the offsides and he has to try again. But if you happen to guess perfectly on the snap, you have a chance at a block to win the game, just no downside to trying to guess it and get lucky. The mistake was by the refs blowing the second one dead, should have just let it go and it would have been over since he made it anyways.

He had his best game of the year and has been improving lately, no denying that. But I still don't see him being an upper echelon QB in this league though, especially with these hits he's taking. Sure, give him all the credit in the world for keeping bouncing back up, but look what the continued hits did to someone like Cam, Bryce won't hold up long term if he keeps taking 4-6 huge hits a game. With him improving though, I may not think he'll be the complete bust I thought he would be a month ago, I'm now reverting back to my pre-draft thoughts of what he'd become. Around the 20th best QB in the league, someone not good enough to carry teams to true SB contention but probably not bad enough for us to cut bait and move on from him. I said before the draft that I thought he'd end up being the Marvin Lewis of QB's, I think that still looks like his ceiling to me.

What about him? I'm still convinced he'll end up on the Bengals before the trade deadline is up, pairing him back up with Burrow/Chase to see if they can help unlock his potential makes too much sense.

If/when we franchise him, if we can't come to a contract by training camp, he can't play a down for us again. Cause we sure as hell won't tag him twice, so if we can't get a deal done with him by then, he just has to be traded for whatever we can get. Which, in turn, is why he just should be traded right now. We couldn't come to a deal with him before all this, I don't see us coming to one at any point down the line, need to get a good return for him and just move on. Also can't look at what we turned down last year and make decisions based on that, sunk cost that we can't go back and do, have to make the best possible decision with the situation at hand currently.

How can we turn down the offer last year, then not get a deal done this offseason, only to now not even be listening to offers?!?!?! It makes no sense, only thing I can think of is that they're saying that hoping someone will make a stupid offer to test our resolve and then jump on it, but that seems like a losing strategy

Not really, we could have afforded him if we waited on getting a #1 instead of giving Chark his contract. Once we did that, we couldn't justify the cost plus lack of snaps it would have given TMJ and Mingo. But now that we see TMJ is a total bust and Chark is kinda trash, it's different, particularly with how poor Bryce as looked, we need to get him improving THIS season and not wait till next.

Technically not true based on the title of the thread Bucs play Thursday

He's a worse version of Thielen, would be completely pointless for us to add him. We need outside and speed WRs, the literal opposite of what he is