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I’m sorry (to the Cam fans) but Jake is my favorite Panther QB. Rode in on a white horse to save the day, in his first game as a Panther. I think we were 17 points down at the half. He came out of nowhere, and BAM. And played great in the biggest game of his life too.

Thanks. I was just off looking. Found a compilation of reactions to Luke not being 1st ballot if anyone wants to see it: https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/nfl-luke-kuechly-hall-of-fame-snub-tweets-panthers

Who that compares to Luke was denied the 1st ballot honor? Maybe I should look. I am biased I guess but I don’t think with an extra 3 years with no decline, how could they legitimately deny him?

Maybe in a Thomas Davis thread. Brooks is at 2 now. To state the obvious. I don’t know orthopedic surgery but total speculation by me is maybe the first surgery was done incorrectly, and it isn’t just a weak knee thing. That got me. My knees would not hold up but that was in the old days of even one ACL ruining you.

I think Olsen for a 3rd was a pretty great outcome. We got borderline HOF worthy performances for a few years.

That’s funny because… I didn’t see the game but there was a clip from Sunday of Rico completely blowing a block. So I am glad to hear the other side.

The footwork is a huge deal, it seems clear that you aren’t gonna do much velocity jumping to throw or standing with both feet parallel to the LOS which is pretty much all arm no leg drive. The only chance he has, to be NFL good, is using great footwork and getting leverage from his base. When he doesn’t? He gets away with stuff, sure, but it is not going to get the job done in the long run, big picture, etc etc.

He has been pretty focused on fixing a problem but it seems like it is just one big effort at the most glaring problem per season. They are building LOS first, I hope next year they focus on the second level. I would love to see him put his overkill stamp on ILB.

Well I have never claimed anything he did was due to bad players on the other side. On the flip side, people defend him on the regular with saying it isn’t his fault because his teammates are bad. The coaching, the other players, tell me I am lying. Hmm. Edit I am going to caveat that first thing. I for sure claimed you could not use college as a direct comparison to the NFL, because the NFL is another level entirely. So it does discount the opposition, in that context. But once you have NFL results, no.

And he were truly an underdog late round guy I would have a totally easier time rooting for him. Everything he got then, would be earned through performance. But it wouldn’t change what he is as a QB, the same limitations would be in play. And I wouldn’t overlook them, if I were being clinical about it. It is still perform or take a seat.

Remember ‘vaporware’? That stat seems like vaporware to me. I looked it up yesterday and still don’t really understand it. It seems way to loosely defined, and really poorly named IMO.

you mean like, if he completes a pass we say he didn’t? If he stands tall and steps into his throw knowing he will be hit but pays the price to make the play? I have seen him do that, once or twice. And complimented him for sacking up. I don’t understand why it is impossible to admit he has shortcomings. That his arm is not strong by NFL standards. It all is what it is,

Who is invalidating accomplishments? What does that even mean?

Agree. His talent though….. and football intellect. He was a code breaker. Offenses had no surprises.

I hope you understand that this Anti Bryce thing as you call it is really a pro Panthers thing. I think I can safely use we. We want the best for the Panthers. As far as this other post saying ‘Anti’ Bryce people do misinformation.. you mean like going all in on “Renfro should have caught” that poorly thrown ball? I guess it was week 1. And calling it a drop. Comical btw. I wonder, did you call that out or let it slide because it aligned with your agenda?

These are great posts with the comparisons and the numbers. I haven’t lookyat Smity’s numbers since probably the first time he was on the ballot. But if you watched every week you know what he is. Whatever his yardage or targets numbers were. He was fuging dominant. I have watched since the AFL days and seen who there is to see. There are many great WRs over the years. GREAT WRs. Smitty is up there in the game of football.

No kidding. Too much fan analysis and not enough detached analysis. Hell I even said he could make do if he handled all the mechanical and footwork issues, but still get attacked. For lack of objectivity.

I mean, isn’t all tissue soft? I never heard bone called tissue.

Yeah well Wallace sucked, Brooks was a huge disappointment, and XL was just okay but has rented the doghouse this year. All we had was Sanders, Smith Wade, and Jackson. Those down ballot guys take a little time to ripen. If Wallace turns out to be decent add him in. And I forgot about Sanders.

I would never intentionally sell him short. He was as good as anybody and better almost everyone. I was lucky to watch him and the Panthers were very lucky to have him. I think I was mainly talking through the lens of the mainstream who don’t appreciate that.

Jake is in my Hall of Fame and he’ll have to settle for that. Smitty deserves it on talent and what he did for his team (not to his teammates). I am not feeling Smitty making it this year. Luke should be a first ballot IMO.

oh boy. Where to start or should I even bother…. Objectivity? Credibility? Where do I get certified like you are? I didn’t even look at those videos so no surprise. I didn’t need to look at more videos to know what his deal is. This is as simple as it gets. You look at his tape in college and at his pro day and the initial tape of his disastrous debut and it is all over the video. The things I talked about. Then you look at Canales last year and he had him doing proper footwork. You could see that he was doing it in the Buffalo drive in that preseason game. But Bryce abandoned that footwork in his first game against the Saints by the start of Quarter 2. It is on video for all to see. Regression to the comfortable. And the horrible. All I said is true, period. He just does not have the arm for many all arm throws and he certainly can’t stand flat footed and compete for velocity and distance with the guys that do have that kind of arm. He can only get his top velocity with the proper footwork and I have been preaching that since year one. . The message hasn’t changed. And that is HIS top velocity. Cam had a fastball. Bryce has off speed compared to that. To really sling one he has to max effort the throw. If you don’t want to acknowledge that throwing with max effort is less accurate than taking a little off, and seeing how that fits into the whole picture, maybe you lack objectivity and credibility.

Yeah. So far it looks like we have 4 hits. It is early. plus the kicker and this new kickoff plan. And we got some good out of the late pucks last year. Mike Jackson is basically our 7th, CSW and Coker salvage some good from it even if XL and Brooks bust. Wallace is possibly going to be better. 8 or 9 starters out of two drafts is really good.

Yeah we are gonna find out one way or the other I hope. I am of the mind that it will always be this compacted playing field style ball. Non opened up. And you put a guy with the real NFL arm in and it will be obvious, like it was the last two years in week three. if Bryce can do the legit job -not garbage time but in a competitive game - to the degree where people fear him… I will be surprised (and good for him if so). I think it is a tall order pun intended. We have to see some real proof, I hope, before they give him a huge contract. We wring our hands worrying that they will do that on less than rock solid proof that he can play up to it.

I looked at him and his arm and his footwork, before he was drafted. It was clear then it is clear now. He doesn’t have an arm that can flick a ball down the field using only the arm. I don’t see his arm as good by NFL standards. I see it as something he must overcome. So I quibble with the characterization. What I completely agree with is if he does not do his mechanics and footwork right his velocity and accuracy suffers. If he is diligent and adheres to proper execution, yeah he can make do with his arm. That sort of is what it is at this point. Another aspect of it is he needs to use maximum effort to go downfield or to really drive a ball with any kind of heat. That (max effort) hinders accuracy. I have talked about this before. He is at a disadvantage having to max exert compared to a guy that can use a very repeatable easier throwing motion. Up to him if he can proof the pudding and hang with the big dogs.