LinvilleGorge

Yep, very pleased with Icky. I honestly didn't know if he'd make it as a LT in the NFL but one of the reasons I likes the pick is o felt it was a safe pick because with his physicality and run blocking abilities if he didn't work out at LT he probably had positional versatility in his skill set to be a good player somewhere along the OL. The problem with the finesse LTs with prototypical LT measurements is that if they don't work out at LT, where do play them? They don't really translate anywhere else along the OL. With all the OT busts on the past couple of decades Icky's potential positional versatility made me more comfortable.

Maybe they weren't TE centric during that time because Hurst wasn't the guy they thought he was going to be? I mean, some teams actually do adapt to their rosters. Trust me, as a Panthers fan it's sometimes tough for me to wrap my head around that one too.

It just frustrates me because I feel like we rarely take advantage of the strengths of drafts.

I just think we're a gigantic question mark with an all new staff, all new schemes, a new #1 overall pick QB, etc. It's gonna be exciting to find out. But as far as expectations go? Honestly, I don't have any. I just hope we show that we're heading in the right direction.

What about the other two teams? Hurst has busted for three teams now. We're team #4 and we paid him like a legit starting TE. I hope we prove to be right in that decision but it honestly doesn't look like a smart gamble. I get that we were basically borderline desperate at TE, but that's why I wanted to draft a TE considering this was one of the strongest TE draft classes on paper in recent memory while this year's TE free agency class was basically hot trash.

Bust up until this point is very fair. And Hurst is knocking on the door of 30. It's not like he's some young prospect. We've all seen NFL teams paying former high draft picks with physical talent far more for far longer than they should based on the info available to them.

But honestly the baseline talent isn't as close as I thought it was. I knew Olsen had a very nice combine but I thought Hurst had a better performance than he did. The earlier poster suggesting Hurst might be out most athletic TE ever... just laughable. Hurst: Olsen:

Olsen had 600+ and 8 TDs in his third season before Martz came to town. Martz was famous for not involving TEs in his passing game. The Bears hiring Martz at OC was the gift that allowed us to steal Olsen from them. He was progressing nicely after an underwhelming rookie year getting better every year before Martz came along. The situations just aren't very comparable even though the baseline talent probably is.

Thanks for proving my point.

This is one of the dumber semantics based arguments I've seen someone try to make. You can be hopeful of the Hurst signing based on stat cherry picking and athleticism. Cool. Makes sense. I can understand that. But don't try to play revisionist history and act like the guy isn't a bust as a former 1st round pick who has bounced around because he hasn't produced. That's just clownish.

Hurst is definitely better but as of now on paper that just means we have two bad contracts on paper at TE. Lots of these former high round draft picks make way more money for way longer than they should as team after team thinks they can find in the guy what no one else has. Every now and then it turns out to be the case but more often than not it turns out to be a mistake.

This will be a valid comparison in four more years.

It's not so simple to say that a guy catching 75% of his targets would perform so much better with more opportunities. Clearly three teams have decided that wasn't the case since they didn't use him more. We're betting on that being the case. I hope we're right and those other three teams were wrong but cherry picking numbers and selective narratives to fit a viewpoint are pretty comical if I'm being honest.

Yeah, we would definitely be laughing at division rivals had they signed a TE to a 3 year/$21M contract who had 1700 yards over the course of five seasons with three different teams.

The only definitive statement I've made is that to this point in his career he's a bust. Because he is. I hope he turns that around here. It's okay to be honest and objective about our own players. The reality is that we'd all be pointing and laughing at a division rival if they gave Hayden Hurst $21M over 3 years.

I've cited both his bouncing around the league and his stats. You just bounce back and forth based on whichever is convenient for you at the time. You seem to just be arguing for the sake of argument. Name me another player that has bounced around four different teams over six years while posting subpar stats who isn't widely considered a bust.

If he's a former 1st round pick and he's bounced around the league largely due to lack of production and his former teams seeking out better option, then yeah it would be fair and customary to consider that player a bust. You sure are choosing a strange hill to die on.

I honestly hope he's great for us. All I'm saying is he hasn't lived up to his 1st round draft status and he has bounced around the league and hasn't latched on anywhere long term. That is generally referred to as being a "bust". Not sure why this reality is triggering you so hard.

Sure they do. They're not good. 1718 yards and 14 TDs over 5 seasons. That's 344 yards and 2.8 TDs per season for reference. He's averaged 25 receiving yards per game played.

4 teams in 6 years as a former 1st round pick = BUST. Sorry.

Well, that post sure was ironic.

Olsen did more in four seasons in Chicago than Hurst has in five. Quite a bit more. Hurst is on his fourth team in six years for a reason. I hope he can show in Carolina why he was a 1st round pick but as of right now? Certified bust.

It's crazy how fast Zach Bryan blew up. It was just a few years ago when he was a kid in the Navy just posting videos on YouTube. I was planning to go see him in Asheville last year and the cheapest ticket to get in the door was like $200. I was like

Thielen is a proven producer but is on the decline. Chark is a proven producer but requires that dreaded "when healthy" addendum. Hurst is basically an outright bust of a former 1st round TE. I mean, let's be honest, 1700 yards over the course of 5 seasons just isn't good.

I think our OL is pretty good on paper. Maybe as good as any we've ever had. The receiving corps is about as close to a complete question mark as you can get in the NFL. Little proven production, but some intriguing young potential. We'll see how it pans out. Honestly, I'm personally not overly concerned about this season. I don't expect to be contenders. I just want to see progress made and signs that we have a coaching staff and a QB that can get us there with a few more pieces.