LinvilleGorge

I don't think he did it to spite Bryce. Seems like Bryce is a truly decent guy that virtually everyone likes. I do think Frank likely preferred Stroud and was either was led to believe or deluded himself into thinking that he would have a lot more say in the direction we went at QB in the draft. Once we decided on Bryce knowing Bryce didn't fit his system and preferences in a QB it really seemed like the wind went out of Frank's sails and he basically started mailing it in and just waited to get fired and paid out. Maybe I'm misreading the whole situation but that's certainly the way it looked to me from the outside looking in.

Part of our problem is that we've been focusing on trying to put the best bad team that we possibly can on the field instead of focusing on building the best foundation to build on that we can. Making short term decisions to try to duct tape together a competitive roster. The end result is that you're going to suck now and you're going to suck later. I hope we're watching us transition into an organization that realizes that's a hopeless approach.

I hope he proves to be the best player available. No matter what we weren't addressing all of our issues over the course of one off-season.

The Saints say "Hi!" I also wouldn't be too confident throwing shade after Bryce finally had a few decent games. I mean, good grief. LOL

Even had we known them I still suspect T-Mac would've been the lick given Walker's own lingering injury issue.

Yeah, if you're shopping for major contributors in July you're screwed. We were already paper thin at LB. This isn't good. We're gonna have to be shopping that waiver wire hard and hope someone surprising hits the garbage pile.

Interestingly enough Deion worked hand in hand with Mike Leach to develop his offense. Mike Leach is an air raid guy. Are you arguing for Dillon Gabriel to be the #1 pick? I mean, he put up crazy numbers against better competition and he wasn't throwing to the Heisman winner.

We'll see how it plays out. In terms of positional value, outside WR is certainly a lot higher on the totem pole than TE but if Warren turns out to be the next elite TE then we may look back on it as a mistake. Only time will tell. I mean, Kyle Pitts was the last "generational TE" prospect and no one had Warren at that level of prospect and if the Falcons could re-do that draft they'd take Jamarr Chase over him every single time. If they had Chase to pair with London they would really be a problem offensively. Not saying that T-Mac is a Chase level prospect at WR, he's not. I put him more in that London category but I think that category of WR is a higher value than the Warren category of TE. I honestly think Warren projects as more of a Todd Heap style player which is still a helluva player but I don't think he's the type of game breaking TE that you draft in the top 10. At the end of the day, we'll just have to see how it plays out on the field. Every draft would play out a lot differently if you could re-draft it 1, 2, 5, 10 years down the road. There will inevitably be mid-late rounders who should've ended up being 1st rounder and there will be 1st rounders who should've gone undrafted. Hopefully we come out in the right side of that revisionist history because we've been on the losing end of it for years now and that's a big part of why we suck.

I mean, you're espousing poo takes. What do you expect? I think the poo reaction is weak sauce and you should just be willing to actually voice your disagreement but that's just me.

You keep complaining about an "echo chamber" when half the posts in the Dalton and Theilen threads that have you crashing out are your posts. If there's an echo chamber it's the one in your own head. Just sayin'...

Find a weaker overall TE room than ours. He's sitting on a couch right now.

Seriously. I certainly hope that Sanders is TE1. I don't know that he's the long-term solution there but I'm pretty damn certain that Tremble definitely isn't.

Makes sense. I mean, his receiving stats aren't terrible. Basically mid-marginal starter/high end #2 type numbers. Gotta be some reason why a guy with that type of production who is only 27 years old is sitting on a couch. Surprising for a guy coming out of Iowa. I mean, Iowa has basically become TE U in recent years.

I don't mind no longer dumping massive resources into the position but striking a balance between the two approaches would be nice.

I mean, it wasn't a "collapse" as much as it just made an already bad defense historically bad. Add any one player in NFL history to that D and it would've still sucked.

What's the issue? That's always going to be the case. The NFL teams set the value of these picks through the trade market. Fetching a 2nd round pick in the trade market is a pretty big deal and that's because NFL teams really value draft picks.

They definitely shied away in part of Deion and the hype machine. Hell, even the Browns' football people didn't want him. Just look at the faces in that room as the pick was being announced. LOL But honestly, Shedeur checks all the boxes of guys who put up big numbers in college but don't project well to the NFL. QB friendly pass happy offense. Bad defense that forces the team to chase points. Weak schedule. Marginal measurables and talent. I mean, let's be honest, what plus physical traits does he have at the NFL level? Size? Below average. Arm? Below average. Mobility? Average. Then you add in the Travis Hunter factor of an all world athlete being your primary target. Finally, you have to look at his playing style. He basically plays like Johnny Manziel. There's pretty much only two guys who have made that style of play work for them in the modern era and that's Favre and Mahomes and they both have absolute cannon arms. Caleb Williams has that cannon and he's still struggling to make it work. Yeah, the Deion circus hurt him but when you objectively look at his NFL projection then combine it with the reports that he handled the whole pre-draft process extremely poorly it's not a shock he fell to the 5th. If his name was Shedeur Johnson instead of Shedeur Sanders there wouldn't have been this massive hype train around him. The media hype misled a lot of people regarding his NFL projection. He basically projects as a backup and the last thing you want out of a backup is a circus. Their fault or not, that's why guys like The Golden Calf of Bristol, Kaepernick, and Cam never carved out careers as backups.

He really seemed destined for the Pats or Steelers with his six fingers and all.

I wouldn't say most. I think people are letting the overall weak QB class and weak top of the draft board skee their views on Ward. If he played for Bama or UGA or OSU he would've probably been considered generational. The guy has all the physical tools you want and put up insane numbers. What more do you want? The only thing he lacked as a prospect was the media hype and honestly that was largely due to the Sanders hype machine sucking it all up.

Truly amazing insight here. LOL These draft class vs. draft class comparisons just aren't relevant. It really doesn't matter how prospects stack up vs. other draft classes. A lot of people are doing the same thing with T-Mac. Oh, he would've been the 4th or 5th best WR in this class or that class. Okay, great. We're still sitting on the clock at #8 and we have to make a pick or take a trade offer. Drafting a player from another draft class isn't an option so who cares? Everyone kinda accepted going into this draft that it was weak at the top but pretty strong in depth. Now we get to see how it plays out on the field. Plenty of draft projections prove incorrect.

The trade up really put Bryce in a huge spotlight. Yeah, the Bama/SEC effect definitely played a big role too.

If WR is our biggest strength that will be HUGE. It basically means that T-Mac showed up as a legit #1 WR from day one and XL developed into a legit starter over the off-season. IMO, the strength of the roster is obviously OG. We have one of the best pairs of starting OGs in the league with some decent depth behind them. The biggest issue we face is that there are numerous compelling arguments to be made about our biggest weakness. LOL

Hadn't really thought about it because he's been so out of the spotlight so far, but yeah...

It's a message board. Discussion is what it's meant for. How does this require explaining? I'm not "running to his defense" as much as I'm pointing out that your take is dumb and you should feel bad for it. Like I said before, you're the equivalent of a failing business blaming your top sales rep who while not putting up stellar numbers is still your top guy and is meeting expectations all the while seemingly giving everyone else in the organization a pass to focus on one of the few things that isn't abjectly broken. Adam Thielen is the least of the Panthers' issues. That's the whole point. You're missing the forest for the small bush. You're blaming an aging WR with a mid-level contract for not being a good #1 when he was brought here to be a veteran presence and solid #3. That's not an Adam Thielen problem. You're blaming the wrong entity.

The primary person who is going to make or break Bryce is Bryce. The OL is solid. Probably as good as most of our historic best units. The WRs are unproven but we've spent a ton of draft capital. We have a proven RB behind him. It's put up or shut up. You don't trade up to #1 overall to draft a guy who has to be carried. That type of guy should be doing the carrying.